The entirety of GT:Behind the Claw was declared non-canon. Everything else is, to my knowledge, canon if only present in the alternate (lorenverse) universe.
Canon Problems with G:T books
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The entirety of GT:Behind the Claw was declared non-canon. Everything else is, to my knowledge, canon if only present in the alternate (lorenverse) universe.
LeperColony
Traveller Card Game Dev Team
Ground Forces also uses the (in my opinion, terrible) concept of the Unified Armies of the Imperium. In GT, rather than the Imperial Army being raised, trained and equipped by the central government, it is instead made up of Imperialized units from individual planets.
This directly contradicts the IA as described in TNE, the version with which I am most familiar. And, from what I can recall of MT, it conflicts there too.
This directly contradicts the IA as described in TNE, the version with which I am most familiar. And, from what I can recall of MT, it conflicts there too.
The very existence of an Imperial Army, sn assuming it exist if it is a small core to coordinate/support colonial ones or a full fighting forcé whas throughtly debated in this thread.
In fact, I don't remember any reference to it in MT (I know little about TNE).
While the Solomani Armies are described in MT:S&A (page 14-15) as being formed on its majority by planetary forces, coordinated and lastly commanded by the confederation Army, no such clear information is given (AFAIK) about the Imperials.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There are many quotes I could list for the existence of a standing Imperial Army, but the nailed on cert is from the intro to LBB6 Scouts:
LeperColony
Traveller Card Game Dev Team
It was (and is being) debated, but nothing was resolved. The sources are contradictory, so likely nothing will be.
All things considered - batting 100 is pretty much impossible where it comes to traveler. In this particular instance, I largely believe that the consensus is correct.
Many of the problems with TRAVELLER as a body of work stem from the fact that too few details were fleshed out in what I'd consider important defining characteristics of the Third Imperium, and in some instances, inferences were made that contradict other inferences. If one would read the latest installment in the Traveller Universe in the form of the Novel by Marc Miller, it appears that what is in the novel doesn't necessarily agree with what is in the body of works for Traveller (that's my take on it mind you!).
But more importantly, each GM has to try and make the Traveller Universe come to life in their own minds so that they can breathe life into it for their players. For me, the biggest problem stems from Human nature and power. For me, the power of the Imperium was never realistic and taking into account not only human nature, but the potential for corruption over time. The "rosy" picture painted of nobility without power but with power is so self-contradictory that I shake my head and marvel over it, not because of someone's vision, but lack of vision.
That aside, the biggest problem that ANY governing body will have is the need to have a monopoly on power. Without a loyal palace guard (so to speak), the Emperors of the Imperium will always be dependent upon the charity of men whose loyalty is to their home worlds first, the Iridium Throne second assuming that the Imperial Army is comprised of a polyglot of military institutions. Rome was right in keeping out Imperial Legions from within its boundaries (as a city) for fear that the soldiers would be more loyal to the Generals than to the senate. After that, it was an issue of the Soldiers being more loyal to rival potential emperors during the barracks wars (which the Imperium is supposedly taking inspiration from).
In the end, you either have a ruling class that is loyal to the state, or they demand loyalty to them FROM the state. Either way, that requires not only a loyal military at your side for defense, but it also requires an instrument that keeps potential rivals at bay.
So, yes - the background of the Imperial Army from GURPS is likely not very useful other than as inspiration for equipment and the like. I used the material in there to create a TO&E for a Battalion in order to price what it costs just for the personnel and their equipment. It was an eye opener to find that one battalion costs as much to raise as three Naval Destroyers (if anyone wants the spread sheet, let me know and I'll send it out. It would be nice to see that data gets retained going forward assuming there will be another generation of role players to carry on the traditions of TRAVELLER). Some say Tanks and vehicles cost too much, some say Naval vessels cost too little. Who is to say.
So, discount what is present in the grand scheme of things with respect to a grand unified army, and simply replace it with an Imperial Army. It would have its own traditions, its own methodology for instilling loyalty to the High Command, with the Iridium Throne the highest possible command of ALL Militaries. God save the Emperor!
Now, why do I hear the Imperial March from Vader playing in the background all of the sudden?
Many of the problems with TRAVELLER as a body of work stem from the fact that too few details were fleshed out in what I'd consider important defining characteristics of the Third Imperium, and in some instances, inferences were made that contradict other inferences. If one would read the latest installment in the Traveller Universe in the form of the Novel by Marc Miller, it appears that what is in the novel doesn't necessarily agree with what is in the body of works for Traveller (that's my take on it mind you!).
But more importantly, each GM has to try and make the Traveller Universe come to life in their own minds so that they can breathe life into it for their players. For me, the biggest problem stems from Human nature and power. For me, the power of the Imperium was never realistic and taking into account not only human nature, but the potential for corruption over time. The "rosy" picture painted of nobility without power but with power is so self-contradictory that I shake my head and marvel over it, not because of someone's vision, but lack of vision.
That aside, the biggest problem that ANY governing body will have is the need to have a monopoly on power. Without a loyal palace guard (so to speak), the Emperors of the Imperium will always be dependent upon the charity of men whose loyalty is to their home worlds first, the Iridium Throne second assuming that the Imperial Army is comprised of a polyglot of military institutions. Rome was right in keeping out Imperial Legions from within its boundaries (as a city) for fear that the soldiers would be more loyal to the Generals than to the senate. After that, it was an issue of the Soldiers being more loyal to rival potential emperors during the barracks wars (which the Imperium is supposedly taking inspiration from).
In the end, you either have a ruling class that is loyal to the state, or they demand loyalty to them FROM the state. Either way, that requires not only a loyal military at your side for defense, but it also requires an instrument that keeps potential rivals at bay.
So, yes - the background of the Imperial Army from GURPS is likely not very useful other than as inspiration for equipment and the like. I used the material in there to create a TO&E for a Battalion in order to price what it costs just for the personnel and their equipment. It was an eye opener to find that one battalion costs as much to raise as three Naval Destroyers (if anyone wants the spread sheet, let me know and I'll send it out. It would be nice to see that data gets retained going forward assuming there will be another generation of role players to carry on the traditions of TRAVELLER). Some say Tanks and vehicles cost too much, some say Naval vessels cost too little. Who is to say.
So, discount what is present in the grand scheme of things with respect to a grand unified army, and simply replace it with an Imperial Army. It would have its own traditions, its own methodology for instilling loyalty to the High Command, with the Iridium Throne the highest possible command of ALL Militaries. God save the Emperor!
Now, why do I hear the Imperial March from Vader playing in the background all of the sudden?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is no contradiction in CT sources.
Authors of later works just missed the references due to unfamiliarity with extant canon or they brought their own pre-conceptions.
Ackehece
SOC-13
T5 answer is Marines have only one guaranteed skill
Fighter.
Fighter includes the knowledge for battledress, beams, blades, exotics, slug throwers, sprays, and unarmed.
So ALL non-commissioned marines, spacers, soldiers will have the battledress skill at skill-0 knowledge-0
otoh they do not necessarily know how to use vacc suit.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Probably Heinlein versus Pournelle.
I don't recall how the Fleet Marines were supposedly equipped, but the Line ones with bullet proof armour, at best. They were also considered expendable.
In the Imperium, you spend a lot of time and money recruiting and training them, and then sending them to where they should make others die, so if the Imperium can afford it, those assets should be protected with the best armour the Imperium can afford.
I don't recall how the Fleet Marines were supposedly equipped, but the Line ones with bullet proof armour, at best. They were also considered expendable.
In the Imperium, you spend a lot of time and money recruiting and training them, and then sending them to where they should make others die, so if the Imperium can afford it, those assets should be protected with the best armour the Imperium can afford.
Would you please be so kind as to quote us your source about those affirmations?
I didn't find any reference about only one company being BD equiped per battalion. In fact, after reviewing both, SMC and JTAS 9 descriptions of the 4518th (that are carbon copy or nearly so), the only reference I found about their personal equipment is
If we take the description about an IM task Force given in JTAS 12, this would mean all the regiment is equiped with BD...
IMHO, the 4518th is far from the standard IM LIR. The 4518th is a fully mechanized infantry regiment, only the jump battalion is not mechanized, and has a large armored component, something the IM seem not to have (after all, you cannot chose Cavalry (armored tropos) nor Artillery when joining the Marines in LBB4).
See that in FFW game, even the Infantry Batalions of the 4518th are shown as Mech Infantry (so doubling their combat factors), unlike the Marine units...
Battle Dress is standard for Jump Troops. (Striker Bk 2, p 43)
"A lift infantry platoon is formed of three squads, each with a grav APC carrying twelve troops, including the driver and squad leader." (SMC)
The G-carrier holds 12 troops plus 2 crew, but is normally fielded with 10 total. (SMC 41).
"Equipment for the regiment (computed based on vehicle tonnages plus one ton per trooper or officer) requires 7457 tons. Transportation tonnage for the personnel requires 5656 tons at standard rates (one stateroom per officer; double occupancy for enlisted
personnel), or 1323 tons for low passage." (SMC 40)
that tonnage does allow for battle dress, but note that BD is 0.25 Td per suit and FGMP's 0.1 Td (SMC 4)... 3.5 kL crated, even if we halve to 1.75 kL fluid displacement worn, is too big to fit in the 2 kL per passenger on the striker designed APC's... which the design sequence limit passengers to 2 kL each... (MT allows up to 4; I can't find the reference that BD requires the largest passenger volume at the moment.) Humans typically run 50-100L, adding another 150L of gear (about the size of a military field pack - 100x20x50, plus rifle, helmet, etc.), that's about 5x the volume. It's improbable that BD troops fit in the G-Carriers at 10 per...
And I need to correct myself... only one Bn, not one Co, is BD troops.
"A lift infantry platoon is formed of three squads, each with a grav APC carrying twelve troops, including the driver and squad leader." (SMC)
The G-carrier holds 12 troops plus 2 crew, but is normally fielded with 10 total. (SMC 41).
"Equipment for the regiment (computed based on vehicle tonnages plus one ton per trooper or officer) requires 7457 tons. Transportation tonnage for the personnel requires 5656 tons at standard rates (one stateroom per officer; double occupancy for enlisted
personnel), or 1323 tons for low passage." (SMC 40)
that tonnage does allow for battle dress, but note that BD is 0.25 Td per suit and FGMP's 0.1 Td (SMC 4)... 3.5 kL crated, even if we halve to 1.75 kL fluid displacement worn, is too big to fit in the 2 kL per passenger on the striker designed APC's... which the design sequence limit passengers to 2 kL each... (MT allows up to 4; I can't find the reference that BD requires the largest passenger volume at the moment.) Humans typically run 50-100L, adding another 150L of gear (about the size of a military field pack - 100x20x50, plus rifle, helmet, etc.), that's about 5x the volume. It's improbable that BD troops fit in the G-Carriers at 10 per...
And I need to correct myself... only one Bn, not one Co, is BD troops.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Current prediction is that in any full scale general war against a near peer competitor, ground force units will likely to pretty much isolated from each other, so a battle dress armour would be quite a force multiplier.
