Should CT be decoupled from the 3rd Imperium?

[flyteach]

When I started playing Traveller, I created my own sector. I went with 3x3. Imagine my consternation when GDW said "hey, it's 4x4 silly". Well, to this day, MTU still uses 3x3 sectors. Didn't have a lot of money in college, so MTU was the only way to go if I wanted to play (well, referee mostly). What is this "Third Imperium" you speak of?

 

[Vargas]

I like the Imperium setting but of course do my own take of it. I start around the "time" of the LBBs; 1106 or so.

Starships larger than 5000 tons exist but they're "non-starship characters" which are seen in the background only.

And what is this Rebellion, Virus of which you speak?

 

[atpollard]

Most of the tropes of the 3I, however, are baked into the rules in Bk1-5 and S4.

THIS … what he said.

 

[mike wightman]

Not quite.
The tropes in the CT 77 rulebook are based on the sci fi of the literature MWM read.
The Imperium was then based on those tropes (although there is some fudging)
You were encouraged to design your own setting.

Now using the tropes in CT 77 you can come up with the Imperium, or an entirely different setting.

 

[Redcap]

Frankly, I really don't see what the repeated hooplah is about.

If you want a traveller-style system without the 3i setting, then either use the Cepheus Engine for a more recent gaming system, or remove/ignore the 3i material in the LBBs, and use the basic CT gaming system sans 3i.

If you don't like the character generation using the 3i, swap that out for something more to your taste; scout characters don't HAVE to be imperial careers, they could be something else completely, same applies to the other career choices for player characters.

IYTU, after all. There is absolutely NO rule REQUIRING you to use the supplied setting, is there now?

 

[mike wightman]

CE has the same tropes as CT since it was built on the MgT 1e SRD and MgT 1e was built designed with the same tropes as CT

 

[Spinward Flow]

 

[Redcap]

CE has the same tropes as CT since it was built on the MgT 1e SRD and MgT 1e was built designed with the same tropes as CT

I was under the impression it was 3i-free and thus copyright free? huh. got that wrong, then. The point is the same though, IYTU, and you can include, exclude, and ignore whatever the heck you want to. There are NO rules REQUIRING you use the setting, elements of the setting, or even the mechanics of the game. IYTU.

 

[atpollard]

The CT LBB1-3 Rules-As-Written have a LOT of 3i tropes built into them.
What does being Soc 12 “Baron” [77-LBB 1, pg.5] mean without an Imperium-like setting?
Psi-phobia is found within the core files on Psionics [77-LBB 3, pg.42].

With that said, it is a trivially simple task to adapt the CT rules to another “SETTING”. I have personally made it my life’s mission to push the boundaries on just how NON-3rd IMPERIUM a setting I can apply them to, including …

• Cold War - Mouse that Roared (a small independent world with a non-interstellar planetary navy located at a critical jump point between two larger Star Kingdoms [Pocket Empires] on the brink of war. The independent world was suffering from a food, economic and political crisis that destabilized the current dictatorship and placed the world on the brink of a multi-faction civil war. Opportunity for Ground/Space Combat, Political Intrigue and Economic gain.)
• Steampunk Waterworld (no starships, transferred Spaceship skills to Steamship skills and Starports became Seaports).
• Cowboys and Dinosaurs (rode bipedal dinosaurs to heard giant herbivores across an ocean-sized prairie while defending the herd from carnivores and wildfires. Settlements were nomadic wagon trains pulled by giant herbivores - like a Gypsy caravan.)
• Tech Level Zero (characters reduced to their most simple forms with SURVIVAL being the goal … can you hunt and gather enough food … find/create shelter … survive encounters with predators … build a community from which to start a civilization?)
• Modern Dystopia (Psi characters in a TL 7-8 near future world hiding their abilities and trying to survive as Government, Megacorporation and Dark Forces prowl the streets, each with their own agenda)

So the RULES are as flexible as you could want or need. Just take or leave whatever parts you want/need.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The CT LBB1-3 Rules-As-Written have a LOT of 3i tropes built into them.
What does being Soc 12 “Baron” [77-LBB 1, pg.5] mean without an Imperium-like setting?

It can mean whatever the.referee wants. It just means that the setting has an aristocracy with sufficient importance that a character's position within it warrants assigning it a characteristic value. It also implies a lack of social mobility. It does not necessarily mandate an empire.

Psi-phobia is found within the core files on Psionics [77-LBB 3, pg.42].

Reasonable nerfs for allowed "magic" in a SF RPG (that is, it's the reason it's not ubiquitous).

 

[mike wightman]

The CT LBB1-3 Rules-As-Written have a LOT of 3i tropes built into them.
What does being Soc 12 “Baron” [77-LBB 1, pg.5] mean without an Imperium-like setting?
Psi-phobia is found within the core files on Psionics [77-LBB 3, pg.42].

Since there was no Imperium and no setting in the original or revised CT rules it is the other way around.
The Imperium has a lot - but not all - of the tropes of the 77 LBB 1-3.
These tropes were gleaned from the literature MWM based Traveller on.

So the RULES are as flexible as you could want or need. Just take or leave whatever parts you want/need.

I agree completely

 

[atpollard]

It can mean whatever the.referee wants. It just means that the setting has an aristocracy with sufficient importance that a character's position within it warrants assigning it a characteristic value. It also implies a lack of social mobility. It does not necessarily mandate an empire.

The difference between an Honor Harrington “Star Kingdom” and a Third Imperium “Empire” and a Star Wars “Old Republic” all with the player as a SOC 12 Baron and the LBB “Rules as Written” is an exercise in semantics. The “setting has an aristocracy” and “implies a lack of social mobility” are the setting-defining Tropes baked into the Rules that run contrary to a Star Trek setting (ignoring the TL differences).

 

[aramis]

I was under the impression it was 3i-free and thus copyright free? huh. got that wrong, then. The point is the same though, IYTU, and you can include, exclude, and ignore whatever the heck you want to. There are NO rules REQUIRING you use the setting, elements of the setting, or even the mechanics of the game. IYTU.

The author's stated goal with CE was to take the Mongoose SRD and make it more like CT... including the 3I built-in assumptions.

It is closer to the CT tropeset than any edition except MT or CT itself...

 

[Redcap]

The author's stated goal with CE was to take the Mongoose SRD and make it more like CT... including the 3I built-in assumptions.

It is closer to the CT tropeset than any edition except MT or CT itself...

Thanks. Wasn't aware of that.

 

[Ullarsskald1957]

(Back after a long health related hiatus.)

I started playing Traveller in the Fall of 1978. I still have my 1977 LBB's, in their box. School year 78 - 79's doings were in the 3rd Imperium.
Summer play with a referee next town over from mine was in his own region bordering Know Space. I brought some of those ideas back to the college group for SY 79 - 80.

I made up my own region of space separated from Known Space when I was a paid referee at a local game shop after I left college at the end of 1st semester SY 79 - 80. I was a good member of the student body, but not so good a scholar.

My region is located in the trailing arm, about 1200 parsecs from the border of the Hiver Confederacy.

Many sophonts are the same or similar to canon, others are my own creation. My favorite is a race based on Earth's pangolin. The region was founded by a separate branch of the Ancients, who successfully defended their border during the Ancients' War.

Even so, there is still some 3I "flavor" to the way societies are set up.

 

[Grav_Moped]

(Back after a long health related hiatus.)

Welcome back!

 

[Ulsyus]

Not quite.
The tropes in the CT 77 rulebook are based on the sci fi of the literature MWM read.
The Imperium was then based on those tropes (although there is some fudging)

So the tropes were based in 1977 on material from the 30’s through to the 70s?

I know Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote about terrain following radar & shower gel & such in 1913, but unless left quite vague, images of the future can leave us asking just how far off they really are.

 

[aramis]

So the tropes were based in 1977 on material from the 30’s through to the 70s?

I know Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote about terrain following radar & shower gel & such in 1913, but unless left quite vague, images of the future can leave us asking just how far off they really are.

Mostly 50's and 60's per the material in Sups 1 and 4, and Marc's recollections in a few different interviews.