Does the OTU have Cruise Ships?

[Spinward Scout]

Watching a TV show at 2:13am and they went to a Viking River Cruise TV commercial.

And I wondered if the Traveller universe had Cruise ships.

I know they have Subsidized Liners, but I'm talking about the big cruisers.

• Half-a-million passengers.
• Three swimming pools with low-gravity diving and a surfing park.
• Zip lines through the center of the ship.
• Sun-sailing off of the port bow.
• Pointing out where the dastardly Zhodani ambushed an IN Destroyer during the 4th Frontier War.
• Its war-hulk still laying on a small moon.
• Listening to a Diva sing Space Opera for select ticket-holders.
• And, of course, Dinner with the Captain.

So what does a Traveller do when they win a trip to Fhloston Paragon?

Besides hoping that they don't hit an icy comet.

 

[coliver988]

The King Richard: https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/I.S.C.V.:_King_Richard

actually used that a few years ago in a game: my blog with the adventure that used the King Richard. one of the posts in the Big Wreck adventure details their time on the cruise ship

edit: updated w/link to the adventure I ran. I also printed out the deckplans...

 

[Spinward Scout]

The King Richard: https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/I.S.C.V.:_King_Richard

actually used that a few years ago in a game: my blog with the adventure that used the King Richard. one of the posts in the Big Wreck adventure details their time on the cruise ship

edit: updated w/link to the adventure I ran. I also printed out the deckplans...

Very cool. But about a 10th of the size I mean. I think the King Richard might be similar to the Subsidized Liner.

I.S.C.V. King Richard holds 300 passengers. Modern cruise ships can have 3,000 passengers.

Massive Interstellar cruise ships could be 10 to 100 times that many passengers.

I might have to design one.

 

[coliver988]

Ahh, I play mostly small-ship universe, so the King Richard is large for me! And while you could not readily create all the deckplans, I'd highly recommend the starship geomorphs for mapping out what you need. Unless you like drawing deck plans. I love deck plans and have way too many, though I actually do use them once in a while.

Though in designing that, you may also want to analyze where the ship is going: few places can probably sustain that sort of ship (unless you move into the GURPS Far Trader universe of a LOT of traffic between systems). There are a few people on this board who love getting into that analysis. Really, really in-depth analysis worth reading (even if I don't always agree with some of the views and ideas, always excellent to see other perspectives and ideas. Some of which I do steal)

 

[Spinward Flow]

And I wondered if the Traveller universe had Cruise ships.

You want the Brown-class Jump Ship from LBB S9, p22-23.
Why?
The 1000 ton Passenger Pod for 225 staterooms plus recreational facilities, safety compartmentalization, and fittings for comfort.

The Brown-class Jump Ship can transport up to 5 such Passenger Pods (1125 staterooms) @ J1 (because whoever was calculating the external towing for the ship class was just REALLY BAD AT MATH and it went to print that way in LBB S9).

 

[Spinward Scout]

Nice!

 

[frankm]

I play a small ship universe as well, and this is my version of a 'large' passenger ship. It doesn't deal with number of stewards per passenger and probably doesn't have enough tender capacity. It's written RE a modified Cepeus Engine description. I was never good at deck plans, though A pocket nuke was being smuggled toward a religious protest...

TL: 11 Treasure Princess Liner​

Using a 4000 ton Standard hull (hull 80, structure 80), the Treasure Princess Liner designed by frankm is intended to transport many people in luxury accomodations. The ship has a type Y jump engine, a type Y gravitic maneuver drive and type Y fusion powerplant giving a jump range of 2, an acceleration of 2g and a power level of 2. The hull has no additional armor. Fuel tankage of 870.000 tons supports the powerplant for 3 weeks and 1 jump-2. The ship is equipped with fuel scoops and 44 tons of fuel processors. Adjacent to the standard bridge are advanced sensors and a computer Model 2 with Library:0, Maneuver:0, Security:0, computer intellect, Autopilot:1, Jump:2, Fire Control:2. The ship has 600 staterooms, 10 low berths for a maximum of 1200 long duration occupants with 10 low passengers. The ship has 40 hardpoint(s) and 5 tons of fire control. Installed on the hardpoints are 2 triple beam laser turret, 3 triple sandcaster turret. Ammunition stores are 90 sandcaster barrels. There are 0 screen(s). There are 65 tons of hangar capacity to service 50 tons of ships and 100 tons of docking bays. Cargo capacity is 100 tons. Crew features include 65 escape pods, 30 tons of luxury fittings, 6 detention cells, 4 sickbays and 2 libraries. Other equipment includes 5 airlocks. The ship requires a minimum standard crew of 57: 4 officer, 7 pilot, 1 navigator, 12 engineer, 1 sensor/comms, 4 medic, 6 flight crew, 5 turret gunner, 13 general crew, 4 service crew. The ship costs 1288.410 MCr (not including discounts, ammo, customization or small craft) and takes 185 weeks to build.

 

[Captain Alex Jamison]

Black Globe is offline Captain. Maintenance is severely overdue. The rest of the ship is not in much better shape if I may be...

You may not !

Aye Captain.

Why did I ever get an AI upgrade... Don't answer that ! Might as well see what the comms are getting I guess... Ah, that reminds me of the AHL that was converted to a Luxury Liner for the ultra rich and their private yachts. Now that was an interesting tour...

-----

Which is to say, I thought I remembered a published adventure around such ? Maybe in Mega Traveller ? Don't seem to see a mention of it though on a quick look so maybe it was just an idea I had but never worked out. Might be a starting point for you Spinward Scout. 60Kton, J5, deckplans available and all the rest fleshed out. Just needing to decommission one and see what you can do with all the space, maybe convert some of the jump fuel space for more room.

Lightning class Frontier Cruiser - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

-----

Black Globe maintenance completed Captain.

Reengage.

Aye, cross your fingers Captain.

Cross your circuits you...

-----

Contact Lost...

 

[Murph]

Beat me to it, King Richard or the Long Liner class ships.

 

[The Oz]

While interstellar cruise passengers (and ships) might be rare in OTU, intrasystem liners could be a different story. A ship that travels out to Saturn and back (using the Sol system as a model) to show passengers the sights is more like the operational model of today's cruise liners, which go out and back from the same port and provide abundant passengers (POP 9+ worlds) with onboard entertainment. For example, if the Law Level planetside is too strict for gambling, maybe that LL doesn't apply beyond the 100D limit.

And just as modern cruise liners do change operational areas for various (usually seasonal) reasons, so too an intrasystem liner might strap on a jump drive and enough fuel to shift to a new system for some reason.

 

[GypsyComet]

I.S.C.V. King Richard holds 300 passengers. Modern cruise ships can have 3,000 passengers.

The next obvious question is whether there is enough tourist/passenger traffic for such ships. Cargo commerce is one thing, but 3000 people all going the same direction seems less established except in some specific regions or for certain reasons (like all being Navy).

 

[Grav_Moped]

Though in designing that, you may also want to analyze where the ship is going: few places can probably sustain that sort of ship (unless you move into the GURPS Far Trader universe of a LOT of traffic between systems).

The next obvious question is whether there is enough tourist/passenger traffic for such ships. Cargo commerce is one thing, but 3000 people all going the same direction seems less established except in some specific regions or for certain reasons (like all being Navy).

This is the thing that snaps my disbelief suspenders. Look at the cargo/passenger volume generation tables, and try to reconcile that with vacation starships carrying thousands of passengers. Of course you can declare these big ships to be sourcing passengers from outside the scope of the trade mini-game, but the problem is that the opportunity costs (at least three weeks of being "out of the loop" for the class of passenger that could afford it*) tend to limit the market for the service even before one considers the ticket prices.

The ship itself needs to be its own "destination resort" -- and if it's that desirable, it doesn't really need to go anywhere. It might not even be primarily transportation; instead, it'd arrive insystem and present itself for local guests to visit. Some people would ride along as it repositions itself in the next system on its route, but the bulk of its business would be charging admission to locals for the resort experience. A theme park with Jump capability, if you will. This is almost exactly the inverse of how today's cruise ships work!

Additionally, you'd have feeder lines of high-Jn ships bringing passengers from near the route to the liner, then meeting up with them further down the line to return them to their home worlds after a few weeks of luxury cruising.

But I'm picky -- this is fiction, so you can invoke the MST3K mantra: "Repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, I should really just relax'". If you want giant space liners, go right ahead and use them.

‐-----‐‐------
* Potential passengers need to:
1. Be able to afford the luxury fares
2. Be able to take most of a month off from their job
2a. ...without things falling apart back home during their absence.

 

[mike wightman]

This is the thing that snaps my disbelief suspenders. Look at the cargo/passenger volume generation tables, and try to reconcile that with vacation starships carrying thousands of passengers. Of course you can declare these big ships to be sourcing passengers from outside the scope of the trade mini-game, but the problem is that the opportunity costs (at least three weeks of being "out of the loop" for the class of passenger that could afford it*) tend to limit the market for the service even before one considers the ticket prices.

The trade mini game only applies to the ethically challenged PC scale free trader, it does not and could never give any clue as to how many cruise line passengers are signing up on a TL9+ world with billions of inhabitants.

The Third Imperium setting has it that there are huge megacorporation vessels that ply the trade lanes/xboat routes - these include dedicated passenger ships.

I agree with Oz that the most likely model for a cruise liner is to visit interesting features within systems - build it, work out the costs, work out the ticket prices, then find out if there are enough well off people on TL9+ high population worlds to pay the ticket prices.

 

[Condottiere]

Militaries operate on an other scale of economics.

Disregarding taxation and overheads, just let me know what's the expected gross profit margin for interstellar cruising.

As regards intrasystem sight seeing, current average price ranges from one hundred thirty to two hundred sixty greenbux per day, divided by five that's twenty six to fifty two starbux per day.

Life support costs are a vague concept despite concrete listed costs, so let's assume two kilostarbux per month, so let's say sixty seven starbux per day, plus fifty two, is one hundred nineteen starbux per day. Rationale, air is somewhat free on Terra.

 

[whartung]

I agree with Oz that the most likely model for a cruise liner is to visit interesting features within systems

But this, honestly, has nothing to do with starships. Starships don't visit "interesting features". At the "space is big" scale, there are no interesting features. A "cruise to Saturn to see the rings", I mean, maybe? But how niche is that?

This is in stark contrast to visiting "human" scale things ON planets (whales breaching in the gulf, glaciers calving, Old Faithful, overlooking the Matterhorn, etc.). And this is not the role of starships, it's the role of local operators putting folks in buses and taken them to see these sights.

The whole "traveling from port to port" thing, like a Hawaiian or Tahitian Cruise, visits "a different island every other day". But when it takes a week to go from port to port, the charm drops off really fast.

Starships bring in passengers to make them available to local touring agencies. But even then, it's going to be a 3 week vaction: week to jump in, week to galavant about Gamma Hydra VI and see the sights, and another week back home.

If folks want to just cruise around in space for a week, no need for a jump drive. But at that point, why leave the planet.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Grav_Moped]

folks want to just cruise around in space for a week, no need for a jump drive. But at that point, why leave the planet.

That's sort of my take on it.
There surely are unique local experiences (dramatic geology or astronomy, exotic fauna, locals who really know how to party) worth traveling for. That said, one can likely find suitable transportation on a smaller scale far more conveniently.

The Cruise Liner would, as I noted above, have to be a destination resort in its own right -- perhaps one per subsector. It would either go to its customers, or the customers would travel to it -- perhaps riding along for a few jumps. Relatively few would use it just to get from one world to another.

 

[Spinward Flow]

This is the thing that snaps my disbelief suspenders. Look at the cargo/passenger volume generation tables, and try to reconcile that with vacation starships carrying thousands of passengers.

LBB2 was written for a Small Ship Universe.
Almost by definition, cruise (star)ships carrying thousands of passengers CANNOT BE SMALL ... because 1000 passenger staterooms opens the "bidding" for (star)ship tonnage at 4000 tons before adding drives, fuel, crew, etc.

LBB5 "opened up" the realm of possibilities to include a Big Ship Universe, but was more military oriented than mercantile.
LBB7 could have done a decent job of expanding the passenger/cargo transport trading game than it did ... but for the most part LBB7 failed to break away from the Small Ship Universe paradigm for merchant operations in high volume passenger and bulk cargo transportation services.

In other words ... there's an opportunity for someone to come along and draw up a Big Ship Trading paradigm, should they be so inclined ...

 

[Grav_Moped]

One could. I'm not entirely convinced that there'd be enough play value in it to be worth doing it up as more than "roll to determine Return on Investment (+/-) for your fleet this month".

At that scope, it's necessarily abstracted anyhow.

 

[Spinward Flow]

At that scope, it's abstracted anyhow.

Just like how Big Ship Universe and Megacorporations are basically "background setting elements" ... rather than being something that a Traveller PC would ever have responsibility for or need to manage personally.

That stuff is "there" in the universe, but it's so far removed from direct Player experience that it can be substantially handwaved away as being (literally) Somebody Else's Problem. It's set decoration, rather than something that needs to be front and center in the minds of Players and Referees.