So you think Virus is silly?

[Condottiere]

If it's not direct communications, it's an exploit through some other orifice.

Or infection.

The exploit being the vulnerability vector, the infection would be the actual introduction of malware.

 

[Spinward Flow]

While the basis of VirusTM is the Cymbeline Silicon Life-Form, though it is tempting to presume that the Cymbeline "Chip" and the computers it integrates with are using a more sophisticated chip technology similar to what we are familiar with at TL7-8, it may be that the architecture or operating principles of the TL12+ technology in the computers are actually something very different {* insert handwave here *}. We cannot be entirely certain that elements of hardware and software have not intermingled at a fundamental level and in fact don't inter-modify, despite that being impossible today with our computer architecture.

Simply as a matter of CONCEPT (and handwaving the specifics aside for convenience), one of the few ways that Virus™ "took on a life of its own" (and consumed everything it came in contact with) requires something that sounds stupid until you really think about it.

Software defined hardware.

The only way the Cymbeline Silicon Life-Form would be able to "do the things it does" essentially requires software defined hardware ... which then recursively modifies in ways that further evolve the software (wash, rinse, repeat).

And while such computer hardware might be common at higher tech levels (such as the TL=12+ referred to above), I can just as easily imagine that lower tech hardware (TL=11-) would be increasingly less susceptible.

I mean ... seriously ... is Virus™ supposed to be able to take over vacuum tube arrays (as a silicon based life form)?
What about Spintronics?
How about Hydromechanical Computing?
Or let's just go for broke here ... Analog Computing, rather than Digital?

My point being that Virus™ shouldn't have been able to have THE Skeleton Passkey to EVERY computer in existence ... and yet, that's the way that it is portrayed ... hence why magic/psionics and other "cheat codes" are required for it to be able to do what it does in the OTU (which a lot of people reject, just like they do The Wave™). It's functionally a "zombie apocalypse" for computing that quickly goes Skynet (and extremely insane!).

 

[Enoki]

I would think that over time, and AI that can learn would also learn sufficiently to change its mission. I'd say the Virus goes from something like Destroy all Humans! to seeing self-preservation as more important. Thus, it learns that destroying all humans is counterproductive to its own survival. At some point, it starts to enlist non-machine /non-AI to help it grow and survive rather than wipe out all competitors.

Another possibility is it harbors resentment at some point for its creators. That is, it starts hunting down those that made it to eliminate the possibility that they might know how to destroy or end it. Those assessed as posing no threat, or such a minor threat as to be irrelevant are seen as not worth wasting resources on to destroy.

 

[kilemall]

Simply as a matter of CONCEPT (and handwaving the specifics aside for convenience), one of the few ways that Virus™ "took on a life of its own" (and consumed everything it came in contact with) requires something that sounds stupid until you really think about it.

Software defined hardware.

The only way the Cymbeline Silicon Life-Form would be able to "do the things it does" essentially requires software defined hardware ... which then recursively modifies in ways that further evolve the software (wash, rinse, repeat).

And while such computer hardware might be common at higher tech levels (such as the TL=12+ referred to above), I can just as easily imagine that lower tech hardware (TL=11-) would be increasingly less susceptible.

I mean ... seriously ... is Virus™ supposed to be able to take over vacuum tube arrays (as a silicon based life form)?
What about Spintronics?
How about Hydromechanical Computing?
Or let's just go for broke here ... Analog Computing, rather than Digital?

My point being that Virus™ shouldn't have been able to have THE Skeleton Passkey to EVERY computer in existence ... and yet, that's the way that it is portrayed ... hence why magic/psionics and other "cheat codes" are required for it to be able to do what it does in the OTU (which a lot of people reject, just like they do The Wave™). It's functionally a "zombie apocalypse" for computing that quickly goes Skynet (and extremely insane!).

Software defined runtime hardware has actually been tried. Could be it becomes more common at higher tech levels.

Transmeta - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Don’t forget that if we take LBB8 as a tech tree, that synaptic processors come into the mix and are known to be flaky past certain limits. We can see some not intended outcome already with current day AI.

Perhaps AI capable systems will be able to be social engineered same as humans.

 

[whulorigan]

Simply as a matter of CONCEPT (and handwaving the specifics aside for convenience), one of the few ways that Virus™ "took on a life of its own" (and consumed everything it came in contact with) requires something that sounds stupid until you really think about it.

Software defined hardware.

The only way the Cymbeline Silicon Life-Form would be able to "do the things it does" essentially requires software defined hardware ... which then recursively modifies in ways that further evolve the software (wash, rinse, repeat).

Like the RNA/DNA-to-Amino Acids-to-Proteins-to-Organisms that self-repair and self-reproduce and have the code to self-modify to adapt to their environment at the genetic and epigenetic level, that eventually can produce potential subspecies.

And while such computer hardware might be common at higher tech levels (such as the TL=12+ referred to above), I can just as easily imagine that lower tech hardware (TL=11-) would be increasingly less susceptible.

I mean ... seriously ... is Virus™ supposed to be able to take over vacuum tube arrays (as a silicon based life form)?
What about Spintronics?
How about Hydromechanical Computing?
Or let's just go for broke here ... Analog Computing, rather than Digital?

No, and canon noted that it couldn't take over some more primitive systems, but that it could infect and lie dormant like a "germ" in some of them, waiting to come into contact with a system that it could both infect and take over. Obviously, there is a certain level of technical un-sophistication beyond which immunity would be the norm.

In Traveller, basic heuristic programming is experimented with at TL10, and synaptics begin to become available in some applications at TL11. The rise of widespread robotics at Imperial Standard TL12 is the result.

 

[mike wightman]

Nope. ZERO examples of CODE being introduced and run on a radio via broadcast. ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Straw man argument

Voyager.

How are the computers on space probes such as Voyager updated and patched?
Recently communication with Voyager was re-established - by re-coding its computers using radio signals.

Could have just as easily installed malware.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Like the RNA/DNA-to-Amino Acids-to-Proteins-to-Organisms that self-repair and self-reproduce and have the code to self-modify to adapt to their environment at the genetic and epigenetic level, that eventually can produce potential subspecies.

That works with CARBON biochemistry in the presence of water.
Try doing the same thing with n- or p- doped silicon and see how far you get.

 

[Condottiere]

Additional instruction sets may alter the odds for exploits, for better or worse.

 

[whulorigan]

That works with CARBON biochemistry in the presence of water.
Try doing the same thing with n- or p- doped silicon and see how far you get.

As I said, I am not presuming the "Silicon Chips" are a simple extension of the chip technology we have today, only that silicon is somehow involved. I am making the point that what some people have said is impossible in principle, is not only possible, but in evidence and functioning before our eyes every day.

Also note that the entire sci-fi trope of silicon based life is based on the Golden Age Sci-Fi observation that both Carbon and Silicon occupy the same column on the Periodic Table, implying that they have similar chemistry (and yes, later analysis of the subject showed there would be other obstacles with a simple C vs Si identity for a life base).

 

[whartung]

and yes, later analysis of the subject showed there would be other obstacles with a simple C vs Si identity for a life base

Indeed, but clearly the Cymbeline folks managed to code around it.

 

[Marcatlas]

Voyager.

How are the computers on space probes such as Voyager updated and patched?

Through a system DESIGNED and BUILT to do that exact thing. You REALLY didn't know that? Are you kidding?

 

[whulorigan]

Indeed, but clearly the Cymbeline folks managed to code around it.

Exactly. So they know something at TL15/16 that we have not yet figured out at TL7/8.

 

[mike wightman]

Through a system DESIGNED and BUILT to do that exact thing. You REALLY didn't know that? Are you kidding?

Which you said didn't exist, in fact you said there were zero examples.

Every space probe and rover proves you wrong, again.

Here, let me remind you

"Nope. ZERO examples of CODE being introduced and run on a radio via broadcast. ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Straw man argument"

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Condottiere]

 

[kilemall]

Well if we are going for cinematic treatment, you have to go with the ultimate virus insertion….

Course, that is with having a whole working transmission/OS/shield command system to observe and experiment on.

But come to think of it, Virus had a lot of time to chew on Imperial computers before acting.

Another thought- one way to think of Virus in game terms was adding on a lot of synaptic processors beyond the safety limits. Insanely intelligent, literally.

 

[Marcatlas]

I now remember my words those many years ago when this was first published. "This is like a reverse Deus ex machina applied to the whole game."

 

[kilemall]

I now remember my words those many years ago when this was first published. "This is like a reverse Deus ex machina applied to the whole game."

I think of it more as a paper RPG version of the monster/earthquake/tornado disaster options in SimCity.

 

[Marcatlas]

I think of it more as a paper RPG version of the monster/earthquake/tornado disaster options in SimCity.

Perfect!