T5 Personal Combat System Review, Opinion, and Problems

[Supplement Four]

T5 Personal Combat System Review, Opinion, and Problems


Overview

Although not explained as clearly as it could have been, the T5 personal combat system is pretty simple. The game uses a one minute (or there abouts--time is not rigid) combat round in which characters can take one action and make a move. The character can attack and move, or the character can do some other action, like operate a computer, and make a move.

The round is highly abstract, so even though the character may be firing his weapon several times, he is allowed one attack throw to represent all combat in which he took part during the round.





Attack Types

There are three general attack types: Aimed Fire, SnapFire, and AutoFire.

Aimed Fire is the only attack option available to Single Fire weapons. And, a person cannot move during the same round that he uses Aimed Fire.

AutoFire requires the weapon to be capable of Burst or Full Auto Fire. A person can move up to Speed 1 (Walk) and use AutoFire in the same round. AutoFire adds +1D to difficulty but also adds +2D to damage is the hit penetrates.

SnapFire requires the weapon to be capable of Burst or Full Auto Fire. A person can stand still, walk (Speed-1), or run (Speed-2) in the same combat round as SnapFire is used. SnapFire adds +2D to difficulty and 1D to damage if the hit penetrates.





Movement

Movement is measured in Speed Ratings. The Vehicles section of the book continues with higher Speed ratings. Some aliens may be capable of Speed-3 or higher, especially in flight.

Speed-0 is standing still.

Speed-1 is human walking speed.

Speed-2 is human running speed.





Range Bands

Range in the game is measured in Range Bands rather than exact movement distances. I love using Range Bands. They're so easy on the Ref! If all the bad guys are approaching on foot, at Medium range, then all attacking tasks to hit them will be at 3D. You don't have a lot of measuring to do in the game. Range Bands give you a sense of range without forcing you to use graph paper or some other hard measuring device.

As it was with Classic Traveller, a GM can just keep track of range using a normal sheet of lined notebook paper, placing penciled dots in the lines, each line representing a range band. This allows the Ref to easily describe the action vividly, right from his comfy arm chair, and players don't have to fuss with moving their characters exactly X amount of feet during their turn.

If a GM wants, he can easily use some sort of plot, like hex or graph paper. I've done that in the past, just to show players relative distance. You're still not counting squares or hexes for combat range.

If the range is close to one of the Range Band breaks, I usually use some feature on the map to remind me where the break is. For example, if the NPCs are advancing on the players, if the NPCs get past a certain rock formation, that's the line I've designated as the switch from one Range Band to another.

But, the great thing about Range Bands is that the system allows range tracking without the need for a map. The action can take place in the player's heads as the Ref describes it, and all the Ref need to is put dots on lined notebook paper to tell him target range when he needs it.





Attacks

Making an attack in this game is as simple as rolling a task. Target range gives you the difficulty: The number of dice you throw is equal to the Range Band number of your target. If your target is 57 meters away, then he's in Range Band 3 (which covers distances of 51-150 meters), and you'll roll 3D on your attack throw.

Tasks in this game are typically achieved by adding a Characteristic and a Skill together to get a target number, then rolling a number of dice where success means rolling the target number or less. The harder the task, the greater the number of dice that are thrown.





Modifiers

The game includes some pretty nifty combat modifiers.

Apparent Size: I think this is brilliant. It's a mod to the attack throw to account for the character's perception of his target. The apparent Size modifier is calculated by Target Size minus Range.

Thus, a man is Size 5*. If he's in Range Band 5 (501m to 1000m away), then the modifier is 0. Calculated, that's Size 5 - Range 5 = 0.

If the man is in Range Band 6, then a penalty -1 modifier is applied to the target number: 5 - 6 = -1.

If the man is in Range Band 2 (6m-50m), then the attacker gets a +3 bonus modifier to his target number: 5 - 2 = 3.

Why is this brilliant? Because it's a simple modifier that accounts for the perceived size of the target. A man standing right in front of you is much easier to hit than the same man standing at the end of a football field.

But, doesn't Range and Difficulty take care of that? To a point, yes. But, consider the man in front of you and a football field away, then compare that target to an 18 wheeled tractor trailer truck, right in front of you and 100 yards away. The difficulty stays the same as with the man, but the modifier changes to accomodate different size targets.

Brilliant.

*A man that is half hidden by cover reduces his size to Size 4. A man who sticks his head out of the hatch of a vehicle is considered Size 3.

A crouching man is considered Size 4 becuase he gets -1 Size for the crouch. A prone man is considered Size 3 because he gets -2 Size for lying prone.

A small control sensor (or even a man's eye) is Size 2. Most all vehicles are Size 6. Starships, 2000 tons or less, are Size 7. Bigger starships are Size 8.





Speed: This modifer is to account for firing at moving targets. If your target is standing still, there's no modifier. If your target is walking, then suffer a -1 modifier to your target number because a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary target. If your target is running, you suffer a -2 modifier to your target number.

Basically, you just subtract your target's Speed from your target number. The faster the target is moving, the harder he is to hit**.

**But, there is a provision for targets moving directly away from you or towards you. Ignore the Speed Modifier in these cases. The modifier applies to lateral target movement.

What about Attacker Movement? There are no modifiers for attacker movement as that is built into the types of attacks that can be made.





Cover and Concealment: If a character has cover, this is a penalty modifier to the attack throw ranging from 0 to -6. The player picks the amount of cover he's using in terms of the modifier. Thus, half cover would be rated at -3 or -4 cover. Cover that includes all but an eyeball, giving the character the least amount of exposure, would be -6 cover.

Any attacker firing at a covered character simply uses the cover modifier as a penalty to the attack roll target number.

I love this part: If a character uses cover, then he must suffer a penalty equal to half the cover modifer on his own attack throws. This is to account for the difficulty of firing your weapon from a covered position (restrictions of movement and vision).

Concealment is handled differently. This is a negative modifier to Target Size, akin to what I write above about about a character crouching or going prone. Concealment makes the target harder to see, and, in effect, reduces its size.

Plug this into the Apparent Size modifier above, and you can see how concealment will have an effect on the attack throw.





Tactics: This is the coolest use of the Tactics skill I've ever seen in any Traveller game. At the start of a combat encounter, a character with the Tactics skill adds it to his EDU score. Then, he rolls 2D and substracts that sum from his Tactics total.

Example: EDU 8 and Tactics-4. 8 + 4 = 12.

Roll 2D: result is 7.

12 - 7 = 5.

The character's tactics modifier is +5, and he can use this modifier himself or direct it any ally with which he can communicate.

If the Tactics mod ends up being a negative number or zero, then there is no tactical benefit the character can discern for that entire combat.

If the Tactics mod is positive (as in the example above), then one character can use that modifier in any combat round. The character with the tactics skill directs who gets to use the Tactics mod during any given round.

C'mon. That's pretty damn cool.

 

[Supplement Four]

T5 Personal Combat System Review, Opinion, and Problems
- continued -




Damage

The T5 Damage System is extremely close to the system used in CT. There are a couple of changes, though.

Armor: In T5, Armor makes does not make you harder to hit, as it does in CT. In this game, Armor absorbs damage.

It's a simple mechanic. Each Armor type has an associated Armor Value. Simply subtract the AV from the total damage. If any damage is left over, then damage penetrates.

If armor is penetrated once, it is destroyed for the rest of the combat encounter.

Thus, Armor-10 would absorb 10 points of damage. Damage of 3D, rolling 11 points, would defeat the armor, applying 1 point of damage on the character.



Protection: Protection is any type of protection that isn't armor. For example, if armor has Insulation-12, then the armor will absorb 12 points of Heat damage in addition to it's normal Armor Value. This is good if you are the target of a flame thrower.



Wounds: T5 wounds are applied just as they are in Classic Traveller. This is thrown just like in CT. Weapons are rated for different types of damage. For example, a revolver that does damage of Bullet-1 will do 1D damage if hit is scored.

The first hit the character suffers is summed and taken from a single physical stat, rolled randomly: STR, DEX, or END.

Damage after the first hit is grouped into dice. For example, if the damage was 2D, then each die is taken on its own. The player of the wounded character decides which stat he wants to lower by the full amount of a single damage die. The player can therefore manage his wounds to keep his character from falling unconscious as long as possible.

Minor Wound: Lowered stats, none at zero.

Minor Wound and Unconscious: One stat at zero means that the character is knocked unconscious for 10 minutes, thereafter treated as having minor wounds.

Serious Wound: Two stats at zero is where damage becomes more than trivial and the character is considered to have taken a serious wound.

Dead: Three stats at zero means that the character is dead.



NPC Damage: There's a special provison to help the GM. If damage to NPCs is 9 or less, then ignore it. If damage to NPCs is 10 or greater, then take them out of the fight.

The NPC may not be dead--but he is somehow rendered ineffective in the combat. Maybe he's suffering from a gunshot wound. Maybe he's unconscious. And, mayber he's dead.

This sounds like it's all GM color.





Initiative

The first rule of Initiative in T5 is common sense. If it's obvious which side or character has initiative, then they move and act first. No dice rolling needed.

If Initiative is contested, then there are a few ways to deal with this.

1. One side can just concede to give nish to the other side.

2. An Opposed Task can be thrown, first comparing Leadership skill, second comparing Tactics skill if Leadership is not present.

The rules give the GM a wide latitude in decide who has the initiative. Characters or sides can also hold back and do nothing, giving up the initiative if they have it and don't want it.



First Attacker Penalty: There's also a penalty to going first, exposing oneself. Every round, the character who attacks first gives his enemies who attack him a +1 modifier on thier attack against him.

Thus, if you attack first, then everybody that attacks you in that round gets a +1 modifier to hit you.

In other words, you may take out an enemy quickly, but every other enemy will get a bonus to hit you that round.

The First Attacker can change each round.

Besides attacking first in a combat round, the First Attacker also gets a pretty strong bonus. The rule says that if the attack made by the First Attacker is successful, then his target cannot also attack during that round.





Suppression Fire

When you use this rule, your weapon has to be capable of AutoFire. You really don't do anything with this rule except declare that your character is using suppression fire on the enemy. There are no rolls to make UNLESS the enemy makes an attack.

For every enemy that makes an attack, the character making the Supression Fire is allowed to attack them!

That really can "suppress" the other side from attacking! They know that, if they make their attack, they will get an AutoFire attack against them, guarranteed.

This is a brilliant rule.





STAMP

STAMP is an acronym for the game's combat round procedure. The letters each stand for the five phases of the combat round. Every character in the combat, including NPCs, move fully through each phase before the game progresses to the next phase.

So, in the Attack phase, all attacks are made, in initiative order. Once that is completed, we move on to the Move phase, where all movement takes place. Damage is not rolled until the Penetrate phase.

Situation. The characters may pull or change weapons during this phase, as they are evaluating the situation.

Target. Attackers indentify targets and determine Range. This is like a declaration phase with the players announcing which target they will attack.

Attack. Combat throws are made.

Move. Movement is carried out.

Penetrate. Damage is rolled.

Here's what I don't like about this: The rules say that every combatant completes each phase before moving on to the next phase. This means going around the table FIVE times during every combat round. First you go through to see if anybody wants to change weapons or ready some other equipment. Then you go through every PC and NPC to allow them to declare their targets.

Then, you go around the table a third time to make attack throws.

Then...you allow everybody to move.

And then...you go around the table again to roll damage.

I especially don't like this because you've got to remember who hit who two phases after the attack throw was made.

 

[Supplement Four]

T5 Personal Combat System Review, Opinion, and Problems
- concluded -



LIKES & DISLIKES

This is the Opinions and Problems part of this review. There's a lot of things I like about the T5 combat system. Range Bands are awesome--a great boon for Refs running T5 games. There are some fantastic modifiers for the attack throw--well thought out mechanics that work well in the game. I love the Tactics rule. Suppression Fire is brilliant. And, the organic method of Initiative is both old school and inspired.

The CT damage system is an old friend that I've always admired for how it gracefully serves as a wound point system AND a wound penalty system. There's a lot to like in this set of rules.

On the other hand, these rules are not without problems. The rule explanations are sometimes hard to follow, and information is hard to find and located in different parts of the book. Unarmed combat, for example, is no where to be seen in the Combat chapter. You've got to look at the Skills chapter in order to learn that Unarmed combat is handled with an Opposed Task and not the combat attack task provided in the Combat chapter.

There are typos in the book, but they don't bother me unless the change rules. There's a big one in the Combat chapter. On page 214, we are told that SnapFire can be performed at Speed-0 or Speed-1. Then, on page 218, the table shows that SnapFire can be performed at Speed-0, Speed-1, or Speed-2. That's a pretty big game question. If page 218 is correct, then SnapFire is the only attack form that can be attempted while also running during the combat round.

The other question is the difference between SnapFire and AutoFire. According to the rules, both attack types can only be used with weapons that can fire in bursts or fully automatically. If there's little difference between the two, there is little reason to ever use SnapFire. AutoFire is both easier to use (AutoFire is +1D Difficulty vs. SnapFire +2D Difficulty) and does more damage (AutoFire does +2D damage after penetration where as SnapFire does +1D Damage after penetration). If page 218 is correct (discussed in the preceeding paragraph), then the only thing SnapFire has got going for it is that a character can use it while also running.

To hamper this issue further, T5 does not track ammunition usage. GunMaker is a weapon design system provided in the rules, and it doesn't generate ammunition magazines beyond a guestimate, and ammo mags are not listed in the weapon's descriptions. We're told that Single Fire uses one around of ammunition, Burst Fire uses 3 rounds of ammo, and Full Auto will spit out lead as long as we hold the trigger down, but there is no notation on most GunMaker Weaon Descriptions for magazine capacity. The Ref can use some examples provided in the game to make educated guesses as to a weapon's mag size, but what's worse is that there is nothing about the weight of the magazines for character Load reasons.


In T5, weapons are always assumed to have ammunition.

I HATE this. It opens up a whole slew of game problems. Characters always have enough ammo on them. They never run out, even if they've been fighting for days with no resupply. Ammo depletion becomes the province of Ref fiat.

In addition, with no ammo restrictions (such as how much ammo a character can carry at one time), there's no reason to ever use Aimed Fire or SnapFire if a weapon is Burst or Full Auto capable.

I really do hate that.

And, I'm going to go one step further and hamper the issue SOME MORE. Aimed Fire is the only attack type available to Single-shot weapons. This means almost all handguns and many, non-assault, rifles. But, the Aimed Fire attack type restricts movement. You cannot move if you use Aimed Fire during the entire one-minute round.

What? Yes. If you have a handgun in this game, then you have a choice. You can attack in a round, or you can move in a round. But, you can't do both.

That's a real problem, especially since we're talking about a game with long, one-minute, abstract combat rounds--where it would be quite acceptable to fire off several rounds of aimed fire and still move.

While I'm on things I truly dislike about the game: I just plain don't like breaking up a combat round as suggested with STAMP. You have all combatants make their attack throws, then you let them all move. Then, you apply damage, having to remember who hit whom? That's not for me.

And, I'm real suspect about the First Attacker rule. The First Attacker in any combat round gives his enemies a +1 modifier to hit him. I can see that part of the rule--it reflects a person's general hesitation to expose himself to danger.

It's the second part of the rule I don't get. The First Attacker in any round, if successful with his attack, penalizes his target by not allwing the target to attack that round. The target is basically suppressed by the First Attacker's attack.

Why is that, when every other character attacked during the round can fight back?



No Game Breakers

There are some definite things I don't like about this game, but are those issues so bad that the game is not enjoyable to play? Are they game breakers? That's for you to decide.

I think a lot of stuff will be fixed with eratta. In the mean time, most of these issue are easily fixed. My dislike of STAMP? Simply don't play the combat round that way. The First Attacker Rule? Don't use it. Allow characters with single shot weapons to use SnapFire, or, instead, allow those who use Aimed Fire to move at Speed-1 (Walk).

See? Most of these issues are easily fixed by the Ref. The biggest problem, I think, is the issue of ammo. But, I've already fixed that. Look for a thread called S4's Ammo Tweak for T5 Within those pages you will find an easy-to-use fix for ammo magazines in the game.





Summary

I hope this review of the combat system in T5 will inform you about both the the glossy sides and nasty warts that is presented in the Fifth Edition of Traveller. This is a long review, but I've endeavored to be detailed about the claims I make. I hope you find my comments useful.

I'm going to leave you with my first impression of the book, the day I opened it, about five days ago....



It was a long day at work, then I had an appointment after work...and then, I had dinner with a friend.

As I dragged myself up to the front door just a few minutes ago, I spotted the box. I knew what was in it, and I smiled to myself.

I haven't had time to evaluate any of the material. I'll write my thoughts on specifics later. But, my very first impression of Traveller 5, as I cut open the tape before folding back the box lid, was akin to that feeling I had, years and years ago, when I first spied the Little Black Box with the Beowulf on the cover, lying alone on a store's shelf. That was over 30 years ago.

When I saw it--that shining black cover, red line, and all--no lie, I got goose bumps.

Then, I pulled it out of the box--the MASSIVE tome of a role-playing game. And, I smiled so much that my teeth dried.

I flipped through, scanning the pages, looking here and there: I LOVE the look of the book! The illos. The typeface. EVERYTHING about the look of the book SCREAMS Traveller to me!

The actual look of the book could not have looked better, imo.

And, flipping through the pages, it truly reminds me of an old school RPG. I'm talking really old school--lots of detail and war game influence. Tons of text.

I'll dig into this slowly. There's no way I could (or, I think, anyone could) read this thing quickly then start playing ASAP. No, this book is going to take time--patience.

As I go through it, I'll write more thoughts.

But...just from the look of it (and the fact that MWM signed it guarrantees that I will not sell it), I'm extremely happy so far.



And, what you see above--this Review--are those further thoughts that I've had since receiving the book on Monday.

Ciao for now,

S4

 

[GrayPennell]

Thank you thank you for this. I am running a game for a FLAGS event and needed this. Can you do unarmed combat next

Thanks again

 

[BytePro]

Very nice writeup, Supplement Four!

Thanks!

 

[SpaceBadger]

One thing that bothers me most of all: I get the impression that in most combat rounds each attacker chooses only one target? And that each combat round is one minute long? That seems very strange and unreal - OK, this is a game, but it breaks my WSOD.

I do not have personal experience with combat using firearms, but for unarmed combat this is just wrong. Sure, if an opponent had equal skills or a reach-extender such as a stick, unarmed combat could easily go a minute or longer. (And if situation were worse than that I'd run away!) But if the opponents were four yutzes who'd never been in fights before and were unarmed, guaranteed they'd all be down within that minute!

For combat w firearms I have to rely on experiences related to me by others, or read about in books or TV/movies, but still... fighting one guy for a whole minute? So is it impossible to pop two enemies, throw a grenade to take care of the rest, duck down a hallway and run away, in any less than three minutes?

 

[Supplement Four]

One thing that bothers me most of all: I get the impression that in most combat rounds each attacker chooses only one target?

Correct.

And, it's interesting you put it this way. Never thought of that. You make a strong point.

In AD&D (1E), the game uses a one minute combat round. It was never an issue, but, then again, we're talking about one-on-one melee combat.

Even with a bow, in that game, you could take two shots per one minute round and change targets, if you wanted to.

So, in T5, you get one combat attack per round--yeah, that's one target per minute.

I think this is a good argument for shortening the combat round.

I think CT's 15 second round is about right, but I could see more traditional 5 or 6 second rounds.

Of course, then, you get into minute ammo expenditure--oh, I forgot! This game doesn't track ammo either!

I do not have personal experience with combat using firearms, but for unarmed combat this is just wrong. Sure, if an opponent had equal skills or a reach-extender such as a stick, unarmed combat could easily go a minute or longer.

As I said with AD&D, though, I never had a problem with it before...

So is it impossible to pop two enemies, throw a grenade to take care of the rest, duck down a hallway and run away, in any less than three minutes?

Not impossible! You just need two crewmates to attack the other two!o:

 

[Supplement Four]

One thing that bothers me most of all: I get the impression that in most combat rounds each attacker chooses only one target? And that each combat round is one minute long?

In thinking about this over night, it seems to me an easy fix by just allowing a multiple target penalty.

This allows a character to fire at as many targets as he wants during the round as long as he can suffer the penalty to his target number. Every target sees his chance of hitting dwindle.

I'd have to think harder on this, but how about a -2 penalty per target?

Or, a sliding scale: -1 for the first extra, -2 to all attacks for two extra attacks, -3 to all attacks if firing at a prime target and three extras, and so on.

 

[Apparition]

In thinking about this over night, it seems to me an easy fix by just allowing a multiple target penalty.

This allows a character to fire at as many targets as he wants during the round as long as he can suffer the penalty to his target number. Every target sees his chance of hitting dwindle.

I'd have to think harder on this, but how about a -2 penalty per target?

Or, a sliding scale: -1 for the first extra, -2 to all attacks for two extra attacks, -3 to all attacks if firing at a prime target and three extras, and so on.

Or simply add an additional die per target.

 

[Supplement Four]

Or simply add an additional die per target.

Even better! I like that A LOT.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Or simply add an additional die per target.

I don't have T5 yet, so do not know the effect of adding a die. From what I have read, that makes it harder to hit, right? So if you try to attack more than one target in your one minute combat round, you would have increased chance of missing all of your targets?

 

[Supplement Four]

I don't have T5 yet, so do not know the effect of adding a die. From what I have read, that makes it harder to hit, right? So if you try to attack more than one target in your one minute combat round, you would have increased chance of missing all of your targets?

Yes, the task system is extremely similar to that used in T4. You add your skill to governor stat, then roll that number or lower on a number of dice. The number of dice is the difficulty of the task.

For example, a character with DEX-7 and AutoPistol-3 would have a target number of 10. Roll 10 or less for a hit.

Difficulty comes from Range. You use the Range Band number for the number of dice rolled.

Range Band 1 = Very Short Range, 5m or less.
Range Band 2 = Short Range, 6-50m.
Range Band 3 = Medium Range, 51-150m.
Range Band 4 = Long Range, 151-500m.
Range Band 5 = Very Long Range, 501-1000m

Most personal weapons do not fire past VLong Range, and weapons have maximum effective range. Most pistols have effective range of R=2 (Short Range or less). Thus, with pistols, your difficulty will be 1D or 2D.

So, you've got to roll a 10 or less to hit your target. You're going to roll either 1D or 2D, depending on the range to your target. At Very Short Range, you can't miss. At Short Range, you've got an excellent chance of hitting, given your skill and DEX.

Target at Very Short Range? Roll 1D for 10 or less (automatic).

Target at Short Range? Roll 2D for 10 or less.





What Apparation is suggesting--and I think it's the perfect idea--is to add to the difficulty +1D per extra target during the combat round. Thus, if the above character wanted to attack two other targets, it would happen like this:

The character would take 3 attack throws, one at each target. Let's say that one target is at Very Short Range, while the other two are at Short Range.

Firing at Target A, at Very Short Range: Roll 3D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target B, at Short Range: Roll 4D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target C, at Short Range: Roll 4D for 10 or less.

 

[Apparition]

What Apparation is suggesting--and I think it's the perfect idea--is to add to the difficulty +1D per extra target during the combat round. Thus, if the above character wanted to attack two other targets, it would happen like this:

The character would take 3 attack throws, one at each target. Let's say that one target is at Very Short Range, while the other two are at Short Range.

Firing at Target A, at Very Short Range: Roll 3D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target B, at Short Range: Roll 4D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target C, at Short Range: Roll 4D for 10 or less.

Yes. This is exactly what I was envisioning. It would require a few more rolls, but I feel would be easier than trying to keep track of even more Mods. The target number would remain the same so, the rolls should go quick. I would even consider adding the rule ala Cyberpunk that after a failed attack roll, the attack sequence ends (no more attacks for that character)

 

[BytePro]

With T5, the natural answer is to add die - that being the primary 'difficulty' mechanic (as I understand it).

Varying difficulty dice mechanics aren't my cup of tea as I like to be able to easily think in terms of odds for handling creative situations. But, the real elephant in the room, is mechanics designed around an 'average' 1 minute abstraction in a roleplaying game. Perhaps that is plausible for one on one opponents who can maintain cover most of the time - and in simple scenarios that ignore any creativity that takes advantage of environment and situation (such as to expose/injure each other).

That sure ain't how I roll when it comes to roleplaying...

In well under 4 seconds I can mime* sprinting 5 meters from a covered, crouched position, (snap-)firing 5-8 bursts at two pre-anticipated targets, while lobbing a grenade (pin pulled via teeth) and vaulting over a bar. All from a dead cold start with no initial adrenaline buildup. This is similar to examples I use introducing combat to my Players. Mechanics that would abstract this away, while usable, don't do much to support roleplay.

Non-archaic weapons generally allow emptying chambers/clip/mag/drum in well under 1 minute - and most are reload-able in seconds. Even 10 seconds is a long time when using such weapons in simplistic environments. For things like abstractly simulating a battle between armed forces where one side or both was setup, the T5 combat system sounds suitable. For my style roleplaying - not so much.

[*Please note, I am experienced at taking falls and doing rolls on concrete - and mimed on a well padded surface.]

 

[Supplement Four]

What Apparation is suggesting--and I think it's the perfect idea--is to add to the difficulty +1D per extra target during the combat round.

The neat thing about this is that the attack task will be subject to the TIH Rule (page 132).

In effect, characters can attack a number of targets each round equal to their skill level!

I like how clean that is.

If a character attacks a number of targets higher than his skill level, then the TIH Rule kicks in, adding another +1D to the Difficulty of each attack made.





In our example a few posts above this one, our character has DEX-7 and Pistol-3. That means he can attack up to three targets before being penalized further from the TIH Rule.

Thus, if he attacked 4 targets during the combat round (2 at Very Short Range and 2 at Short Range), his four attacks would be like this:


Firing at Target A, at Very Short Range: Roll 5D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target B, at Short Range: Roll 6D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target C, at Short Range: Roll 6D for 10 or less.

Firing at Target D, at Very Short Range: Roll 5D for 10 or less.


Obviously, this character is not skilled enough to have more than a low chance at hitting any of these targets.





NOTE: T5 Weapons do not normally come with information about magazine capacity. None of the GunMaker samples on page 240 indicate this information.

In the vast majority of cases, this will not be an issue because the multiple target penalty suggested here (plus the TIH rule, if it kicks in), will grow high before the number of targets exceeds the ammo capacity of a weapon's magazine.

It will fall on the GM in those rare situations where magazine capacity is low and the number of targets is high. If a character is using a 6-shot revolver, for example, the GM will need to limit the number of targets to no more than 6.

If the character is using a 2-shot Derringer, then that's 2 targets, max.

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Thanks S4, you have really covered a lot of ground in one week. Fair play to ya

 

[Supplement Four]

But, the real elephant in the room, is mechanics designed around an 'average' 1 minute abstraction in a roleplaying game.

Yes.

I read a comment on another forum about T5, and I thought it even more appropriate than the author's original intent.

He said that he hadn't tried to forge through such a dense, thick book since he first picked up the AD&D (1E) Dungeon Master's Guide.

Remember that thing? Very dense. Small type. Lots and lots and lots of topics covered.

The author of that statement was referring to similarity in the two books (although I think T5 is much, much more dense). But, his statement is also true of the style of the book.

The AD&D DMG always looked to me to be more of a random collection of Gygax's notes--the stuff he created and used in his game as he played--than a well documented game supplement.

I feel the same about T5. It's like this big, bound, unpolished collection of notes that Marc has created over the years. Where a lot of game authors might use these notes as the basis for an RPG book, re-writing and clarifying concepts in the final product, T5, as the AD&D DMG did before it, feels more like just a cleaned up bundle of Traveller Ref's notes.

Now, I do love and admire a good, clean set of rules that has been well-play tested--a set of rules with minimal things that you want to change, where everything is very easy to understand. Mongoose's Conan RPG Core Rulebook is like that.

T5 is not.

But, that's really not all bad, either.

T5 is like having another Ref give you his hard written, sometimes conflicting, campaign notes with the intention of you picking and choosing what you want to use, what you want to change, and what you want to throw away.

And, there's a certain "fun" that some people get (I do) out of digging through these Ref notes, thinking about the concepts, sometimes altering them. It's a bit of a creative endeavor.

This type of thing has always been "Traveller", since the beginning. CT Book 0 says, "Referees should feel free to modify any rule to whatever extent they see fit...." (Page 34, Book 0).

And, remember those old GDW adventures for CT? Where TSR was putting out modules that included every last detail about the scenario, GDW took the approach of giving the Ref a location, maybe some ideas about a scenario, and not much more, forcing the Ref to be creative and customize that adventure to fit into the Ref's game.

It's like other (most) RPG products are saying, "This is exactly how you do it. Follow what it says here to the letter. That's how to play this game."

And, Traveller products say, "Here's a neat idea. What do you think? Mold it. Change it. Customize it. Run with it. Get creative!"

T5 is definitely more the latter rather than the former.

 

[SanDragon]

while lobbing a grenade (pin pulled via teeth)

You go right ahead and pull that grenade pin wiff yer teef. Uncle Sam put a RING on there for a reason. I hope he won't waste my tax money buying you new chompers.

 

[Vladika]

In well under 4 seconds I can mime* sprinting 5 meters from a covered, crouched position, (snap-)firing 5-8 bursts at two pre-anticipated targets, while lobbing a grenade (pin pulled via teeth) and vaulting over a bar. All from a dead cold start with no initial adrenaline buildup. This is similar to examples I use introducing combat to my Players. Mechanics that would abstract this away, while usable, don't do much to support roleplay.

Choreographed and planed?

BTW NOBODY pulls a grenade pin with their teeth. (Except in the movies.) The US Army specifically forbids such practice.

Non-archaic weapons generally allow emptying chambers/clip/mag/drum in well under 1 minute - and most are reload-able in seconds. Even 10 seconds is a long time when using such weapons in simplistic environments. For things like abstractly simulating a battle between armed forces where one side or both was setup, the T5 combat system sounds suitable. For my style roleplaying - not so much.

I think you are quite right here!

[*Please note, I am experienced at taking falls and doing rolls on concrete - and mimed on a well padded surface.]

From this, and earlier, you should be a stunt double.

 

[BytePro]

...--a set of rules with minimal things that you want to change, where everything is very easy to understand. Mongoose's Conan RPG Core Rulebook is like that.

T5 is not.

But, that's really not all bad, either.

Agreed - I wouldn't be interested if I thought it was all bad.

I can just as easily ignore '1 minute' as I ignored CT's 15 seconds - if it doesn't have significant impact on other parts of the rules (movement/non-combat tasks).

But, at least going by what you've presented, it does sound like the intended situations handled by the combat rules are over-simplistic for supporting roleplaying, not just abstract. RAW not already accounting for multiple targets, ammo issues, nor plausible action times. [Damage, on the other hand, sounds a lot like a LOD that supports roleplaying - though maybe overkill mechanically?]

[My 'turns' are of the duration of roleplay. Not to say this is for everyone - its a bit chaotic, requires mental effort, and I generally only have 4 or less Players to deal with at a time.]

You go right ahead and pull that grenade pin wiff yer teef. Uncle Sam put a RING on there for a reason. I hope he won't waste my tax money buying you new chompers.

Yeah that was just Hollywood style! No reason the pin wasn't pulled before sprinting, but then Uncle Sam don't exist IMTU. Besides, spitting out a few teeth during combat makes for good roleplay color!