They seem to mostly be invisible in the background, something like robots in Traveller, but when the blasters start flashing, they're the ones running for cover everywhere.
To Space Opera or to Not Space Opera, That is the Question.
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Lucas wanted a lived in look.
Alien had an industrial aesthetic.
Alien had an industrial aesthetic.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
It's one of those subtle little tone things.
Low tech stuff tends to be "well lived in/worn" while the high tech stuff tends to be "shiny/clean" almost every time in sci-fi for some reason. Probably because Really High Tech™ stuff doesn't maintain itself and requires specialists to keep it all running, while Low Tech™ stuff just needs to not let the magic smoke get out of it.
- Are the people "slaves" to the corporate machines that rule their lives?
- Or are they hardscrabble "frontier folk" scraping by on their skills and their wits in a world that couldn't care less about them?
- Is the technology they live with "factory fresh" in mint condition or is it barely functioning salvaged junk that everyone else threw away?
Low tech stuff tends to be "well lived in/worn" while the high tech stuff tends to be "shiny/clean" almost every time in sci-fi for some reason. Probably because Really High Tech™ stuff doesn't maintain itself and requires specialists to keep it all running, while Low Tech™ stuff just needs to not let the magic smoke get out of it.
Daidoji Dave
SOC-11
This blows my mind. Assuming they executed even halfway competently, it would have put the prequel trilogy to shame.
Or, depending on how you look at it, how much they'd cede to novelist Timothy Zahn. But I have no inside information on how much Zahn was provided with line direction, or editing for continuity, so it might come to the same thing.
I'm reminded some of the Star Wars novels were good, not just as Star Wars, but good in their own right. That's not always the case with licensed properties. I dropped them anyway at one point because there were just so many, but I might revisit Aramis' list above to see what holds up, and what I missed.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Current word is that the Star Wars franchise acts as a loss leader for Disney, though the loss part is unintentional.
With British tax credits, it might be revenue neutral for the films, and if anyone buys copies and merchandise attributed directly to them, may eventually make some money.
The streaming/television shows seem to indicate ideologically motivated storylines, mixed with cluelessness, and driven by desperation, the return of Thrawn being a known quantity and fan favourite.
With British tax credits, it might be revenue neutral for the films, and if anyone buys copies and merchandise attributed directly to them, may eventually make some money.
The streaming/television shows seem to indicate ideologically motivated storylines, mixed with cluelessness, and driven by desperation, the return of Thrawn being a known quantity and fan favourite.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
Several are significant in certain novel series...
We get a working stiff in the Sten Series, but he gets rescued from it to become a black-ops team member, later leader.
Captain Naismith is firmly middle class until she falls for Lord Aral Vorkosigan.... and went from upper-middle class on Beta, to the Emperor's Regent's Wife, and godmother to the Emperor, on backwater Barrayar. We also have Baz and Ekaterina who both were middle class before Miles... but those near Miles do tend to wind up with social status shifts...
We also get Ethan of Athos in the Vorkosiverse.
Babylon 5, we have Garibaldi, a firmly middle class working stiff who is way in over his head. Zach's probably lower class, but might be middle.
The relaunched Lost In Space seemed like the family was middle class...
Starship Troopers, most seem to be middle class.
Oh, and Robotech - both Rick Hunter and Lynn Minmei start middle class; Lisa Hays is the daughter of a a member of the council, so upper class. If you go on to read the novels (don't do #18... the rest are very good, but 18 is kind of a "«bleep»-it. phone this one in." Minmei's story is middle class to starlet back to broke starlet to nearly starving starlet.
They're highly present as supporting cast...
Here's my theory why... The wealthy can afford to adventure.
The poor have little to lose by adventures.
The middle class are comfortable, but persons comfortable seldom seek bettering themselves at great risk. At least, not outside the organized military.
I guess my main point is that it doesn't seem the middle class (mind, I've only watched the movies and such) is portrayed much.
Obviously, Luke Skywalkers family on Tatooine are firmly middle class, landowners, farmers. But portrayed in, essentially, a frontier setting.
I guess what I'm really thinking is there's not much in terms of "suburbia" portrayed. We've seen several shopkeepers, folks bustling about, but all of the lands are either very high end (i.e. Coruscant), or on a lawless frontier always on the brink of disaster. Makes for great adventure, to be sure.
Obviously, Luke Skywalkers family on Tatooine are firmly middle class, landowners, farmers. But portrayed in, essentially, a frontier setting.
I guess what I'm really thinking is there's not much in terms of "suburbia" portrayed. We've seen several shopkeepers, folks bustling about, but all of the lands are either very high end (i.e. Coruscant), or on a lawless frontier always on the brink of disaster. Makes for great adventure, to be sure.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
There are degrees of middle classes, more nuanced than the upper crust, since their influence and wealth varies widely from millionaire to multibillionaire.
Also, there's opportunity and social mobility to take account of, plus, who you know.
I would say the Lars household is right in the middle of middle class, enough money to keep the farm a going concern, but not enough to pay for cheap (human) labour. However, Luke's zombie father is rather (mechanically) connected.
Since these are stories that seek to connect with it's audience, and you want the protagonists to struggle a little, for a modern audience, they're more likely to come from the middle and lower classes.
Also, there's opportunity and social mobility to take account of, plus, who you know.
I would say the Lars household is right in the middle of middle class, enough money to keep the farm a going concern, but not enough to pay for cheap (human) labour. However, Luke's zombie father is rather (mechanically) connected.
Since these are stories that seek to connect with it's audience, and you want the protagonists to struggle a little, for a modern audience, they're more likely to come from the middle and lower classes.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
Wandering a bit off topic, but SW merch is DEAD. Nobody is making merch for Ahsoka, Obi-Woke, or even Mando 3. The merch that exists for Disney SW isn't selling, except Baby Yoda. Yeah, fans know him as Grogu, but merch buyers just see "Baby Yoda." Kinda like Muppet Babies.
SW is 100% space opera. ST tried to be "Hard SF lite." Not so hard, especially when it came to the Radiation/Particle-of-the-Week trope. But no space wizards or laser swords. Oh, sorry. They have laser swords in New Star Trak. (Not a typo, I call all JJ Abrams-derived material "Star Trak," because Abrams' Bad Reboot and Kurtzman's Secret Fakeout know ST about as well as people back in the day who called it Star Trak.)
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I don't mind the movies - I think Star Trek Foreward has a fifty percent of getting filmed, because Abrams might want to hold on to the franchise, even if he takes a personal loss.
Televisionwise, I rather like Lower Decks, especially when you get glimpses of the other factions' minions whining and moaning.
Televisionwise, I rather like Lower Decks, especially when you get glimpses of the other factions' minions whining and moaning.
This is considered the definitive hard sf collection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Wonder:_The_Evolution_of_Hard_SF
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I would assume that one of the writers that influences me a lot, Andre Norton, would probably come under the Space Opera side of things. She blends fantasy and science fiction extremely well, just read Storm Over Warlock as an example. Some of H. Beam Piper's work is definitely Space Opera, like the Lord Kalvan series. I view Space Opera as focusing more on the characters and story rather than worrying about getting the physics and chemistry right. Jerry Pournelle was a much more hard science fiction writer, but I do not enjoy his books are much as I enjoy Norton, Piper, and to a degree, A. Bertram Chandler. Chandler's Kinsolving's World is clearly out and out Space Opera. I have borrowed ideas from all three for my Piper-Norton Sector. My Kelpies, based on an intelligent sea otter, are similar to the Wyverns of Warlock. I do need to write up the Kelpies for the Bestiary thread.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
I just lift the Wyverns wholesale, and use them in replacement for Droyne; though they are more like Marine Iguanas such as from the Galapagos. IIRC the Grimes series is a huge influence on Traveller, as that is where the Jump comes from.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I thought about that, but wanted something a bit different for a colder climate, and the sea otter fit the bill nicely. Besides, I like the critters, and have seen them in the wild in Alaska. I do need to extract the data about them from my brain and put it into a more formal account. I need to do the same for my Kodiak bears from Murray Leinster's Exploration Team.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Blast from the Past: Rediscovering 1930s and 1940s Space Opera.
Prepare for a literary voyage through the stars! I delve into the space opera novels of the 1930s and 1940s, discussing the pioneers of the genre and their enduring impact on the science fiction we love today.
Prepare for a literary voyage through the stars! I delve into the space opera novels of the 1930s and 1940s, discussing the pioneers of the genre and their enduring impact on the science fiction we love today.
CL Moore's Northwest Smith is a good place to start, he is Han Solo lifted wholesale, and the story Shambleau is really a classic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Smith
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I Read 50 Space Operas...the Best Do These 4 Things
00:00 - Intro
00:14 - Interesting Methods of Space Travel
02:49 - Unique Worlds
04:13 - The 2 of 3 Rule
06:33 - Go BIG
00:00 - Intro
00:14 - Interesting Methods of Space Travel
02:49 - Unique Worlds
04:13 - The 2 of 3 Rule
06:33 - Go BIG
My space opera influence for Traveller are mostly visual -
Star Wars
BSG (Original)
Buck Rogers - both the 78 movie/series, and the old B&W serials w/ Buster Crabbe.
Flash Gordon - The B&W serials w/ Buster Crabbe
The Trigan Empire
Star Trek (TAS first, TOS second, then release order)
Space Ghost (the original, not the SG coast to coast)
ALIEN series
Space Academy & Jason of Star Command
Not Space Opera, but definitely influenced my runs of Traveller, Space Opera, and Spacemaster:
Errol Flynn Robin Hood.
The B&W 3 Musketeers and Man in the Iron Mask
The A Team
6 Million Dollar Man
The written space opera came later - several due to traveller
McCaffrey's Brainship, Crystal Singer, and FT&T series. (Which I got to via Pern)
Jack McKinney (a pseudonym for a team) Robotech adaptation
Herbert's Dune
Doc Smith Lensman Series & Fuzzy series.
OS Card's Ender saga
Bujold's Vorkosiverse
Niven/Pournell/Pournell/Stirling's Codoverse
Niven's Known Space
Ringo's Bubble series. Silly, but fun.
Doohan & Stirling's The Flight Engineer series
There was a brief period of Star Wars novels and Star Trek Novels... late 80's to early 90's... but it didn't really filter into my Traveller experiences much. Big impacts on my FASA-Trek, tho....
Star Wars
BSG (Original)
Buck Rogers - both the 78 movie/series, and the old B&W serials w/ Buster Crabbe.
Flash Gordon - The B&W serials w/ Buster Crabbe
The Trigan Empire
Star Trek (TAS first, TOS second, then release order)
Space Ghost (the original, not the SG coast to coast)
ALIEN series
Space Academy & Jason of Star Command
Not Space Opera, but definitely influenced my runs of Traveller, Space Opera, and Spacemaster:
Errol Flynn Robin Hood.
The B&W 3 Musketeers and Man in the Iron Mask
The A Team
6 Million Dollar Man
The written space opera came later - several due to traveller
McCaffrey's Brainship, Crystal Singer, and FT&T series. (Which I got to via Pern)
Jack McKinney (a pseudonym for a team) Robotech adaptation
Herbert's Dune
Doc Smith Lensman Series & Fuzzy series.
OS Card's Ender saga
Bujold's Vorkosiverse
Niven/Pournell/Pournell/Stirling's Codoverse
Niven's Known Space
Ringo's Bubble series. Silly, but fun.
Doohan & Stirling's The Flight Engineer series
There was a brief period of Star Wars novels and Star Trek Novels... late 80's to early 90's... but it didn't really filter into my Traveller experiences much. Big impacts on my FASA-Trek, tho....
