Traveller Fiction Copyright and MM approval

[Grognard]

I am in process of writing a Traveller based novel, and was curious if MM had/would approve use of Copyrights in a novel.

While my fiction is set in the Spinward Marches circa 1105, I wanted to see what precedents have been set.

It may be easier to change the references now, rather than wait until it gets close to final edits/publication. (Assuming it ever does get published)

 

[aramis]

It's not the copyrights that are at issue (unless you're quoting the fluff). It's the trademarks.

And yes, you'd need permission to do either, tho free released fan-fic might fall under the permissions Marc grants by policy.

RANT:

Spoiler:

Why are so many so ignorant of the three types of IP?
Copyright: Literal text only
Trademarks: Look & Feel, specific unique terms
Patent: physical devices, chemical and programming processes

ARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[rancke]

Copyright: Literal text only
Trademarks: Look & Feel, specific unique terms
Patent: physical devices, chemical and programming processes

I thought derivative works fell under copyright too?


Hans

 

[aramis]

I thought derivative works fell under copyright too?


Hans

A novel that doesn't use the words nor art from the original isn't a derivative work, per http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf:
Here's the definition:

A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already existing works. Also known as a “new version,” a derivative work is copyrightable if it includes what copyright law calls an “original work of authorship.” Any work in which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship is a derivative work or a new version.
A typical derivative work registered in the Copyright Office is a primarily
new work but incorporates some previously published material. The previously published material makes the work a derivative work under copyright law.
To be copyrightable, a derivative work must differ sufficiently from the original to be regarded as a new work or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify a work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and formatting are not copyrightable.

Examples of Derivative Works
The following are examples of the many different types of derivative works:
• Television documentary (that contains archival footage and photographs)
• Motion picture (based on a play)
• Novel in English (a translation of a book originally published in Russian)
• Sound recording (CD in which two of the ten selections were previously
published online)
• Sculpture (based on a drawing)
• Drawing (based on a photograph)
• Book of maps (based on public-domain maps with some new maps)
• Lithograph (based on a painting)
• Biography of John Doe (that contains journal entries and letters by John Doe)
• Drama about John Doe (based on the letters and journal entries of John Doe)
• Super Audio CD (in which all the tracks were previously released in a CD and have been remixed)
• Words and music (that include words from the Bible)
• Words and musical arrangement (arrangement is based on a piece by Bach)
• Musical arrangement (based on a work by Bach)​

So, as long as the author isn't using the product identity (Including specific characters, whose combination of name, description, and place would constitute trademark-worthy status) or declared trademarks (which is why Disney trademarks so darned much), it's not a derivative in the sense the law uses.

All the above listed derivatives are simply revisions/expansions of the original, not actual new things.

 

[Matt123]

So in a nutshell, any original fiction based in the OTU is copyright of the new author.

However, if you wish to sell it (or even give it away) as "Traveller Fiction", the trademark "Traveller" belongs to MM and associating products with this trademark is at the MM's discretion (& discretion can usually be bought for an agreed royalty fee).

The "give it away" as Traveller fiction bit depends on MM's Fair Use policy on the trademark. In general tho', I'd take the approach that MM will probably be very pleased to get a copy with your contact details, will be happy if you attach the standard disclaimer and will let you know if at any point you should withdraw it (for example if he reads it & thinks its crap, shows Traveller in a poor light or it takes Traveller in an undesirable direction).

Otherwise publish & sell it as you would any sci-fi without using someone elses trademarks. As Aramis aludes, I'd also change the names of people, worlds, Empires etc, just to save any potential greif later. Its easy to change names before publishing using "find & replace" in Word.

 

[beowulf2044]

As a professional novelist who has had two books published by St. Martins Press, my advice for those who want to write fiction based in Traveller is: Don't.

I would urge those who wish to write and have their work be considered for professional publication to just steer clear of the entanglements of the Traveller universe.

Traveller itself has been patched together from so many classic science fiction references that you'd also run the risk of having your work seen as a 'rip off' of golden age science fiction writers.

And if you manage to elude all of those reference points (such as ignore the Sword Worlds, etc) then you may as well go for true originality. As least as original as any other professional speculative fiction writer.

Just my advice. Do as you will.

 

[Matt123]

Sounds like good advice.

What are your novels?

 

[Hemdian]

Hmmm ... but if work ‘B’ is derived from work ‘A’, and work ‘C’ is derived from work ‘B’ with permission from the author of work ‘B’, then is the author of work ‘C’ liable to get permission for the author of work ‘A’ as well?

In other words, if Marc (as the rights holder to the OTU) were to give his permission for a novel based on the OTU to be published then shouldn’t that be sufficient? Or is the OTU itself in violation of copyright? There have been 2 OTU novels already (albeit they were TNE-based).

 

[rancke]

To take a couple of actual examples. Would R.F. Delderfield's The Adventures of Ben Gunn (a prequel to Treasure Island featuring Flint and his entire crew by name) and Leonard Wibberley's Flint's Island (a sequel featuring Flint (talked about), Archer, and Long John Silver (by description though not name) and set on Treasure Island itself) be derivative works? I've always thought they were.


Hans

 

[beowulf2044]

I won't use the Traveller boards for self promotion (that scream you heard was every other mid-list writer's reaction to someone missing a chance for blatent self promotion). Also, my novels were traditional modern mysteries, not science fiction.

 

[aramis]

To take a couple of actual examples. Would R.F. Delderfield's The Adventures of Ben Gunn (a prequel to Treasure Island featuring Flint and his entire crew by name) and Leonard Wibberley's Flint's Island (a sequel featuring Flint (talked about), Archer, and Long John Silver (by description though not name) and set on Treasure Island itself) be derivative works? I've always thought they were.


Hans

Not for copyright in the US as it reads. Derivative is a narrow term. It's common meaning and it's legal meaning are VERY different. In common parlance, yes, they derive from Treasure Island. But the term in the law isn't as broad, because it's well defined to a very narrow bit.

Now, if they were comics, the look of the characters is copyrighted art, and the use of the same characters would be derivative... But they're prose. So, unless they use the text...

The guiding principle in the examples is "Derivative = new edit of old text."

 

[Icosahedron]

Presumably the OTU and everything in it is a Traveller trademark.
I would imagine that you'd be ok with a novel that was Traveller-inspired rather than Traveller-based, but I dunno where you'd draw the line - that 'look and feel' seems a bit vague to me - especially as Traveller itself was 'inspired' by other novels.
Got any quotes on 'look and feel', Aramis?

 

[jawillroy]

my advice for those who want to write fiction based in Traveller is: Don't.

you may as well go for true originality.

I'm moved to second this - in a spirit of encouragement. DO write. But I want to encourage you to create your own universe rather than throw your efforts at someone else's. Traveller's whole framework is intertwined with other authors' work whose worlds are fun to play around in, but in terms of novel writing they've been done. Piper, Tubb, Asimov et al already covered it. So strike out on your own: quite apart from legal issues of originality, I think that if you're going through the process of writing an original work, you might as well create your own setting as well. I'm sure you'd be able to do a better job.

Besides, writing a Traveller novel is going to limit your audience. I read lots of Science Fiction, and I game; but I don't think I've ever deliberately picked up a book spun off from a game. Fairly or no, some part of me immediately classes them as second rate. Pin yourself to a game and at best you're putting yourself in a niche. I don't know whether a publisher would see that as a good or a bad thing, but I don't see the benefit.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

There have been 2 OTU novels already (albeit they were TNE-based).

Three. One was T4.

Regards,

Ewan

 

[Gray Lensman]

Three. One was T4.

Snipped by me... WHAT WAS THE T4 NOVEL I MISSED THIS ONE $%$^&^%$ o:

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I am in process of writing a Traveller based novel, and was curious if MM had/would approve use of Copyrights in a novel.

Best idea is to ask him (ideally including a very brief synopsis). It is something he's interested in.

farfuture@gmail.com

 

[aramis]

Got any quotes on 'look and feel', Aramis?

Not really... just a pointer: Jefferson Swycaffer.

 

[HiverLord]

RANT:

Spoiler:

Why are so many so ignorant of the three types of IP?
Copyright: Literal text only
Trademarks: Look & Feel, specific unique terms
Patent: physical devices, chemical and programming processes

ARRRGGGHHH!!!!

Understandable.
But a large number of us have no training/experience/need-to-know of such details. (For instance, I'm not a lawyer/writer/mathematician/engineer/writer/ad nauseum...)

Perhaps our forays into new fields and endeavors just open up larger cans of worms... though these are, of course, "growth opportunities".

And it is sometimes easier to understand a subject when one can find someone who can distill the mumbo-jumbo lingo of a field into a form easier to understand. (Isaac Asimov was reportedly great at this. And Aramis seems to fall into that category as well, from what I've seen so far.)

 

[aramis]

Understandable.
But a large number of us have no training/experience/need-to-know of such details. (For instance, I'm not a lawyer/writer/mathematician/engineer/writer/ad nauseum...)

It was part of the curriculum for seniors in government class in Alaska back in the 1980's. It's also currently mentioned in 5th grade civics!

 

[HiverLord]

It was part of the curriculum for seniors in government class in Alaska back in the 1980's. It's also currently mentioned in 5th grade civics!

That doesn't surprise me a bit. I, myself, did so much moving around different school systems in my 'formative years' that I missed a lot of the so-called 'required classes' during that same time period. [Never had a typing class, never had a speech class]. But the classes have always been 'just' a bit different in Minnesota than many other places... Never had a specific government class, for instance...