What TL would ERB's Barsoom be?

[Nightwind1]

Please provide your reasoning.

 

[whartung]

How different was Barsoom from Space:1889, save for the whole "space" part?

As I recall, it was swords and spears and arrows, but with some kind of flying mechanic (Liftwood?). But even then, I don't recall any actual machinery. I don't think they had firearms.

So, I'd give it, what, TL 3? TL 3 had sailing ships and balloons. Good fit for liftwood ships (if that's what they had).

@Timerover51 would probably know best.

 

[Timerover51]

From ERB Princess of Mars, see Project Gutenberg for more Barsoom titles.

These rifles were of a white metal stocked with wood, which I learned later was a very light and intensely hard growth much prized on Mars, and entirely unknown to us denizens of Earth. The metal of the barrel is an alloy composed principally of aluminum and steel which they have learned to temper to a hardness far exceeding that of the steel with which we are familiar. The weight of these rifles is comparatively little, and with the small caliber, explosive, radium projectiles which they use, and the great length of the barrel, they are deadly in the extreme and at ranges which would be unthinkable on Earth. The theoretic effective radius of this rifle is three hundred miles, but the best they can do in actual service when equipped with their wireless finders and sighters is but a trifle over two hundred miles.

They have had me down in the pits below the buildings helping them mix their awful radium powder, and make their terrible projectiles. You know that these have to be manufactured by artificial light, as exposure to sunlight always results in an explosion. You have noticed that their bullets explode when they strike an object? Well, the opaque, outer coating is broken by the impact, exposing a glass cylinder, almost solid, in the forward end of which is a minute particle of radium powder. The moment the sunlight, even though diffused, strikes this powder it explodes with a violence which nothing can withstand. If you ever witness a night battle you will note the absence of these explosions, while the morning following the battle will be filled at sunrise with the sharp detonations of exploding missiles fired the preceding night. As a rule, however, non-exploding projectiles are used at night.”

Yes, they have rifles with highly lethal bullets during the day. At night, a different story.

As for flyers, see the following. I would highly recommend reading a Princess of Mars.

The next few days were spent by Kantos Kan in teaching me the intricacies of flying and of repairing the dainty little contrivances which the Martians use for this purpose. The body of the one-man air craft is about sixteen feet long, two feet wide and three inches thick, tapering to a point at each end. The driver sits on top of this plane upon a seat constructed over the small, noiseless radium engine which propels it. The medium of buoyancy is contained within the thin metal walls of the body and consists of the eighth Barsoomian ray, or ray of propulsion, as it may be termed in view of its properties.

This ray, like the ninth ray, is unknown on Earth, but the Martians have discovered that it is an inherent property of all light no matter from what source it emanates. They have learned that it is the solar eighth ray which propels the light of the sun to the various planets, and that it is the individual eighth ray of each planet which “reflects,” or propels the light thus obtained out into space once more. The solar eighth ray would be absorbed by the surface of Barsoom, but the Barsoomian eighth ray, which tends to propel light from Mars into space, is constantly streaming out from the planet constituting a force of repulsion of gravity which when confined is able to lift enormous weights from the surface of the ground.

It is this ray which has enabled them to so perfect aviation that battle ships far outweighing anything known upon Earth sail as gracefully and lightly through the thin air of Barsoom as a toy balloon in the heavy atmosphere of Earth.

Basically, the Barsoomian eighth ray functions the same as liftwood, without the scarcity or loss of lifting effect. As also indicated, they have radium powered propulsion engines. They also had an atmosphere planet for maintaining a breathable atmosphere. No electronic communications however, but a lot of mechanical devices in later stories. As for general Tech Level, weaponry would be something like Tech Level 4 to 5. The Radium power plants would equate to Traveller's cold fusion plants. Lighting would be based on radium-powered light bulbs. I am not sure if you could apply a simply Tech Level to Barsoom. It would depend entirely on what you are covering. There is considerable cultural conservatism when it comes to hand weapons.

 

[Timerover51]

Correction, they do have some form of wireless targeting and communication system, and they are also telepathic.

Likewise, under Sola’s tutelage, I developed my telepathic powers so that I shortly could sense practically everything that went on around me.

What surprised Sola most in me was that while I could catch telepathic messages easily from others, and often when they were not intended for me, no one could read a jot from my mind under any circumstances. At first this vexed me, but later I was very glad of it, as it gave me an undoubted advantage over the Martians.

 

[Condottiere]

Three hundred mile range of a rifle, within the atmosphere of Mars?

That would be ballistic, and if you're using visually sighting, would require light to curve, unless:

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Are you asking for manufacturing TL currently, or that of the "ancient" wonders?

 

[Starglim]

Are you asking for manufacturing TL currently, or that of the "ancient" wonders?

Flyers and radium guns (the latter even by the green nomads) are currently manufactured and new inventions are made, up to spaceships controlled by artificial intelligences that reach the moons. Telescopes are far more advanced than 19th century Earth. They have radio communications using an analogue of Morse code. Surgery and, in our terms, genetics have high capabilities.

The atmosphere plant is relic tech, only controlled and maintained by a single operator, though long-lived and he could take an apprentice or otherwise teach his knowledge.

Swords are swords, but of advanced metalwork, as per the description quoted for the rifle.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Added for reference value.

 

[mike wightman]

I would go with TL5, with magi-tech.

Their magitech replaces gunpowder, steam engines etc with "radium" and eighth ray tech.

 

[Condottiere]

Porotypes, and early prototypes.

Recalling John Carter of Mars, they have anti gravity craft, so if they can manufacture that, technological level six.

 

[whulorigan]

I would go with TL5, with magi-tech.

Their magitech replaces gunpowder, steam engines etc with "radium" and eighth ray tech.

Porotypes, and early prototypes.

Recalling John Carter of Mars, they have anti gravity craft, so if they can manufacture that, technological level six.

Recall also that since some of their technology is relic tech, you may need to have two TL-regimes specified:

1. Current (and currently producible)
2. Relic (only available as surviving relic items and possibly currently still maintainable by moderns with the right training and resources).

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Another thing to consider is the narrator. We assume he is reliable on the descriptions. But does he KNOW what he is talking about or is he merely PARROTING back what he was told because he has a good memory. So I started statting him out:
He remembers nothing before the age of 30 BUT he does remember ....
- He is a American from Virginia who fought for the Confederacy and was advanced to the rank of Captain (1+ Term Army Officer)
- After the war, prospects for gold in Arizona Territory and adventures around. 1 (failed??) Term as Explorer/prospector)
- Spends 9 years on Mars (so left 1867), reemerges in NYC in 1876. (2 Terms Barbarian, Mercenary)
- He dies in 1886, leaving his manuscript A Princess of Mars with his nephew Edgar. (2 more terms on boring old Earth)

So Im guessing he was born around 1830-1834 (or even earlier). This gives him time to to "forget his early life before the age of 30" and still remember being Confederate Army Captain John Carter.

Using the Original Cepheus Engine Rules by Samarden Press (Remember It does not have Life Events or University options):
Age 18 (1848)
Homeworld: Earth X867972-4 Hi Lt
(Wikipedia claims we hit 1 Billion people around 1804, the World government is balkanized and the World was a bit more relaxed on weapons)
(Argument for TL 3 could be made, especially if he is even older...)

Law Level Skill Choice: Gun Cbt
Homeworld Skill Choices: Streetwise, Survival
Education Choices: The usual EXCEPT for Computer-0, Electronics-0, Engineering-0, Space Sciences-0. Comms may iffy (does telegraphy count as Comms)?

Age 30 (1860) Unknown 3 terms
Here is where we throw in the freebie skills.
What did he do for three terms?

Age 35 (1865) 1+ Terms An Army Captain is Surface System Defense Rank 2.
How does he get there?
Surface System Defense 1 term if you Commission and Advance.
- He is a American from Virginia who fought for the Confederacy and was commissioned the rank of Captain (1 Term Army Officer)

Age 37 (1867) 1 Term Colonist or Scout,
- After the war, pen He gets transported to Barsoom:
John Carter ex-Army Captain [Character UPP] Age 37
Unknown (3 terms) Army(1 term) Cr:
Animals-0 (probably) Gun Combat-0, Streetwise-0, Survival-0
[Character Equipment, if available; list only significant property]
He likely has Animals (Riding), Tactics, Leadership, Melee Combat