CT Only: Fleet Scout (Type SF) 199.5Td, J4/4G

[Spinward Flow]

of any TL (even Kinorb A663659-8).

In the original LBB S3 and Fifth Frontier War board game, Kinorb/Regina had a UWP of A663659 5 and was a Rich, Non-industrial world.
It's CT Errata that came along and later revised the tech level upwards from 5 to 8 for the world, a +3TL bump (for reasons never adequately explained), along with myriad other retcon changes that violate the continuity of multiple CT publications.

It's one of the reasons why I'd like to be able to create my own "LBB3 Repaired" version of the Spinward Marches for use with Travellermap. It's been more than a week already and @tjoneslo hasn't responded to his own inquiry regarding alternative versions of sector maps yet, which is mildly frustrating.

Anyway ... the point that @AnotherDilbert is making is a valid one. In the "early writing" of CT (LBB1-3) starship construction was "relatively tech level insensitive" since only the drives and computers "cared" about tech levels, while everything else was just "assumed" to be available given a type A starport. LBB5.80 changed that paradigm in important ways that we've been using and relying on ever since as a "better default" for how to think about the question of how much UWP matters (if at all, beyond the type A/B starport) in construction and annual overhaul maintenance.

 

[coliver988]

it is easy enough to make your own sector maps via the various APIs given in TravellerMap. Download the Spinward Marches XML data, make your corrections, and use the mapping API to create your own map.

 

[Spinward Flow]

it is easy enough to make your own sector maps via the various APIs given in TravellerMap. Download the Spinward Marches XML data, make your corrections, and use the mapping API to create your own map.

Already aware of and found (a couple weeks ago) ... I've just been busy with other priorities and haven't had the opportunity to sift through the data to make up my own map yet. Pretty sure I can do it (it's just spreadsheet editing), the challenge is finding the TIME to commit to the (somewhat open ended) task.

The follow up though is wondering ... once I finish making a "better Spinward Marches map" ... do I keep it just for myself or do I share it (somehow)? And if I'm going to share the fruits of my labors with the rest of the Traveller community, how would that be accomplished?

 

[McPerth]

In the original LBB S3 and Fifth Frontier War board game, Kinorb/Regina had a UWP of A663659 5 and was a Rich, Non-industrial world.
It's CT Errata that came along and later revised the tech level upwards from 5 to 8 for the world, a +3TL bump (for reasons never adequately explained), along with myriad other retcon changes that violate the continuity of multiple CT publications.

As for the reasons of the upgrading, see that with Starport A (+6 to TL) and Government 5 (+1 to TL), 8 would be the minimum TL that could be rolled for it. So I guess the initial TL 5 was an errata...

 

[Spinward Flow]

As for the reasons of the upgrading, see that with Starport A (+6 to TL) and Government 5 (+1 to TL), 8 would be the minimum TL that could be rolled for it. SO I guess the initial TL 5 was an errata...

You make a compelling point.

However, as soon as you dip into the "oh, there's an errata, fix it" mindset, I would have thought that switching the starport type between Dentus (UWP C979500 A S) (LBB S3, p20) and Kinorb (UWP A663659 5) so that Dentus gets the type A starport and the Scout Base @ TL=10 while Kinorb gets the Type C starport @ TL=5 would actually make more sense.

Revised Dentus UWP: A979500
TL DMs = +6 (starport) . +0 (size) . +0 (atmosphere) . +1 (hydrographics) . +1 (population) . +1 (government) = +9DM
1D+9 = 10 is possible (LBB3.81 rules)

Revised Kinorb UWP: C663659
TL DMs = +2 (starport) . +0 (size) . +0 (atmosphere) . +0 (hydrographics) . +0 (population) . +1 (government) = +3DM
1D+3DM = 5 is possible (LBB3.81 rules)

Still doesn't explain why Regina (UWP A788899 A 2) got a +2TL errata bump from TL=10 to TL=12.

Regina UWP: A788899
TL DMs = +6 (starport) . +0 (size) . +0 (atmosphere) . +0 (hydrographics) . +0 (population) . +0 (government) = +6DM
1D+6DM = 10 is possible (LBB3.81 rules), as is 12 of course, but I'm not seeing any kind of forcibly imposed minimum of 12 here from the +DMs

I've also cross-checked with LBB2.77, p9 to see if there are any changes with respect to the TL DMs in world generation and found none. Continuity of the TL DMs chart is sustained through TTB, p85 as well, so all CT world generation sources are basically in agreement.

 

[McPerth]

Still doesn't explain why Regina (UWP A788899 A 2) got a +2TL errata bump from TL=10 to TL=12.

Regina UWP: A788899
TL DMs = +6 (starport) . +0 (size) . +0 (atmosphere) . +0 (hydrographics) . +0 (population) . +0 (government) = +6DM
1D+6DM = 10 is possible (LBB3.81 rules), as is 12 of course, but I'm not seeing any kind of forcibly imposed minimum of 12 here from the +DMs

My own explication for the change from TLA to TLC, taht IIRC first appear in SMC is that, this module being after 5FW (while the former TLA is before it) its TL was improved thoughout the war, as it was one of the main focus of the fleet assembly on it.

While increasing TL may seem a too harsh change, see that TL does not mean the full retooling of the wotrld, just the improve of the cutting edge industiries. Considering that some Kinunir were built in Regina, it had some even higher TL facilities, and assuming it would make such a change in so few time, being an assembly point for the IN (TL 15) cannot, IMHO, be ruled out.

IRW we can say in many aspects the TL to have been increased form 6 (early planes and tanks) to 7 (jets and nuclear power) during WWII-Korean war, that means also a short time, and we had no external help.

Of course, YMMV

 

[Spinward Flow]

My own explication for the change from TLA to TLC, that IIRC first appear in SMC is that, this module being after 5FF (while the former TLA is before it) its TL was improved thoughout the war, as it was one of the main focus of the fleet assembly on it.

Which is a perfectly reasonable stance to take ... but it's objectively incompatible with the notion that Regina was TL=C in 1105 as Travellermap continues to claim.

The Travellermap eras available to switch to are:

• Interstellar Wars
• Early Imperium (IY 0)
• Solomani Rim War (IY 990)
• Golden Age (IY 1105)
• The Rebellion (IY 1120)
• The New Era (IY 1201)
• The New, New Era (IY 1248)
• The Far Far Future (IY 1900)

Regina/Regina TL=C by 1120 ... eh ... it's quite a stretch, but theoretically doable.
Regina/Regina TL=C by 1201 ... well ... according to Travellermap, Regina is TL=D by 1201 ... so ...

Regina/Regina TL=C in 1105 ... just how dumb do you take me for?

My point being that the CT Errata overwrite of LBB S3 looks like a massive retcon that "doesn't fit" the 1105 Spinward Marches era in a lot of detailed ways. Things like TL advancements to numerous worlds can be explained by marching 15 years down the timeline from 1105 to 1120, but numerous other changes (like world size, atmosphere, hydrographics and other details that shouldn't be getting retconned) are harder to justify.

 

[McPerth]

Which is a perfectly reasonable stance to take ... but it's objectively incompatible with the notion that Regina was TL=C in 1105 as Travellermap continues to claim.

Well, I won't claim to have seen all sources, but all I've seen from 1105 show Regina as TL A, while those in/after 1110 (ao after 5FW) show it as TL C. That's why I assumed so, but there may be some matherial I've not seen that claims it as TL C in 1105...

but numerous other changes (like world size, atmosphere, hydrographics and other details that shouldn't be getting retconned) are harder to justify.

Fully agreed here...

 

[whartung]

how would that be accomplished?

I would imagine you could publish the sector files here as an attachment, make a PDF of the sector and share that. Probably don't need to do each subsector, but you could also if so inclined do that and bundle them in a single PDF of multiple pages. Preview will let you do that, and you are clearly accomplished at using Preview.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I would imagine you could publish the sector files here as an attachment, make a PDF of the sector and share that.

Just to be (excessively) clear here, I'm thinking I would need to edit up a new spreadsheet file to plug into the Travellermap APIs and that such a data file would be the REAL goal here (because it programs the Travellermap to provide the correct results). Any kind of .pdf imagery would then become a "proof of output" exercise to demonstrate how the changes I would be making modify the presentation results.

Preview will let you do that, and you are clearly accomplished at using Preview.

Eh ... I dabble from time to time ...

 

[coliver988]

Just to be (excessively) clear here, I'm thinking I would need to edit up a new spreadsheet file to plug into the Travellermap APIs and that such a data file would be the REAL goal here (because it programs the Travellermap to provide the correct results). Any kind of .pdf imagery would then become a "proof of output" exercise to demonstrate how the changes I would be making modify the presentation results.

Eh ... I dabble from time to time ...

or share the 2 files (SEC and....err something else [XML?] I think for the borders/region mapping) and people can plug that into the API. How I made my subsector maps

edit: forgot it is an SEC file...

 

[whartung]

I would imagine you could publish the sector files here as an attachment

such a data file would be the REAL goal here

or share the 2 files (SEC and....err something else [XML?] I think for the borders/region mapping)

That's what I was thinking. The sector data (in appropriate format) plus a PDF of the rendered sector.

And, yea, you can use the Booklet Maker on TM to make a whole book out of your sector. That's a nice gift of the TM author.

I would just go to that, select Spinward Marches, and it loads both the sector and meta data (XML) into the two fields, then grab those, take 'em to the back shed, fire up the fusion reactor and the laser lathe to make the appropriate cosmological adjustments, and then feed 'em back to TM.

 

[Spinward Flow]

And, yea, you can use the Booklet Maker on TM to make a whole book out of your sector.

I must have missed that functionality/feature in my perusal around the site.
Care to give a direct link to what you're talking about?

 

[whartung]

Care to give a direct link to what you're talking about?

Sector Booklet - Traveller Map

travellermap.com

 

[coliver988]

the sector booklet thing is really amazing and a really, really nice feature/gift. Used it a few times, though my homebrew is only a quadrant. Suppose I could make the other subsectors at some point though.