It's Not Canon!

[mike wightman]

How so? It's pretty simple example that works well enough (no pun intended)

to describe the observed result in 2 dimensions.

You can use the same argument to champion the correctness of Newtonian gravity, it works but is a simplification that is wrong once you get beyond the parameters it was designed to describe.

<snip>You can use energy transfer to reduce the entropy of a system, but you pay for it by raising the entropy of the rest of the universe <snip>

In short, we cannot take waste heat from a PP and convert it to anything to disguise or hide the heat. That is the OPPOSITE of how the universe works. Whatever semantics we use to describe it.

I am not someone who thinks stealth in space is possible. It isn't - waste heat is waste heat and you are right, however we cool our ship it has to be detectable.

What I need in my TU though is a way to explain why every ship doesn't have a massive array of radiators, hence my gravitic heat sink postulation. I like Straybow's handwavium for a heat sink, but it could never provide stealth for the reasons we agree on.

I am now toying with the microthin retractable radiator idea instead.

As an aside there was a conversation a few years ago that brought up the interesting point that TNE FF&S missed a trick in not making heat management a bigger part of Traveller ship operation and combat

 

[Condottiere]

There's always solar sails, with capillaries.

Besides shedding heat, might blot out heat signatures, or at least, blur them.

 

[Proneutron]

There's always solar sails, with capillaries.

Besides shedding heat, might blot out heat signatures, or at least, blur them.

The "heat shedding" solar sails is what will be seen all the way across the solar system. Blurring doesn't matter. All the passive IR sensor is doing is pinpointing a ship out there and tracking its movement. That way interception of some type can then be enacted.

 

[Straybow]

Not laughable.

But...
[rant mode]
gravity isn't a field, or a force or a well, but gravity waves are real. If general relativity is going to be contradicted it is going to take one heck of a theory that can actually be experimentally verified.

<snip some stuff>

The universe makes black holes - our maths and physics breaks down when trying to describe them, therefore our maths and physics is wrong and needs fixing, not the universe.

There are other examples - I already mentioned the vacuum catastrophe - then there is dark matter, dark energy and other holy cows that are great hypotheses but have absolutely no experimental evidence to back them up. I cry a little when eminent scientists claim they must exist - that's what they said about phlogiston and the ether.

<more snippy>

We need something beyond quantum field theory and general relativity - but whatever it is has to be able to produce the same observational and experimental results as GR and QFT[/rant mode]

I've always said, "The map is not the territory." Physicists think the world exists within their equations but it does not. I remember reading about somebody's solution for black holes, where the time dimension gets twisted into spacelike, and space gets twisted into timelike. Sorry, it's nonsensical even if the math gives you a pretty answer. Same for "dark" matter and energy.

I've read some alternate theory stuff 20 years ago that has never caught on. Basically, relativity is not the only way to apply Lorenz transformations, and actually using A to account for gravitational energy instead of making it cancel out. The latter results in non-singularity black holes. The gravity gradient cannot reach c, so photons oriented exactly perpendicular can escape with enormous red shift (microwave background?). Perhaps stray high energy particles might escape via tunneling, a different sort of "evaporation."

Perhaps to some physicists those things are laughable. Mine, definitely laughable. It can never be squeezed into a workable math.

I ignore timelike dimensions entirely. They don't exist as such, time is merely the experiential measure of sequential states. So, right away they won't like my eleven physical dimensions without a time dimension.

Higher dimensions above the three we experience are neither timelike nor spacelike. They don't fit either definition, which is why the jump bubble can move between points in space FTL (without going through "space"). If time were a "dimension" with intrinsic existence tied to the three spacelike dimensions, then FTL would be impossible.

Ya know, we should make this a separate thread instead of derailing a discussion on canon.

 

[BRover]

I've always said, "The map is not the territory." Physicists think the world exists within their equations but it does not. I remember reading about somebody's solution for black holes, where the time dimension gets twisted into spacelike, and space gets twisted into timelike. Sorry, it's nonsensical even if the math gives you a pretty answer. Same for "dark" matter and energy.
. . .

"In theory, theory and practice are identical.
"In practice, they are not." mega:

 

[LeperColony]

To be honest, I don't really understand the light saber option. It seems likely that a TL 15/16 society like the Imperium could create them if they really wanted. They just don't appear to be very practical.

 

[aramis]

I am not someone who thinks stealth in space is possible. It isn't - waste heat is waste heat and you are right, however we cool our ship it has to be detectable.

If one is able to change it to be radiating along dimensions ABC instead of XYZ, it doesn't have to be visible to those who only perceive XYZ.

Yes, you have to radiate it SOMEWHERE, but that somewhere doesn't have to be perceivable N-Space (XYZT).

Especially since the canonical description of J-Space is essentially a bunch of alternate branes which appear to be [BXYZT] with each being a step away in direction B... but since they appear to be fairly quantized... they may instead be separate branes of [XⱼₙYⱼₙZⱼₙT]. Perhaps the secret at TL9 is the ability to dump waste heat from the PP into a different brane, probably not one that's also a J-Space dimension.

 

[mike wightman]

Ever wonder if there is more than one time dimension? Space has three dimensions, add time for spacetime. What if time itself has three dimensions so six in total but we only perceive spacetime as three space and one time.

Traveller most definitely postulates the existence of extra dimensions, but they are not the hidden dimensions of string theory, they are more akin to alternate universes with different laws of physics.

 

[Grav_Moped]

If one is able to change it to be radiating along dimensions ABC instead of XYZ, it doesn't have to be visible to those who only perceive XYZ.

Yes, you have to radiate it SOMEWHERE, but that somewhere doesn't have to be perceivable N-Space (XYZT).

Especially since the canonical description of J-Space is essentially a bunch of alternate branes which appear to be [BXYZT] with each being a step away in direction B... but since they appear to be fairly quantized... they may instead be separate branes of [XⱼₙYⱼₙZⱼₙT]. Perhaps the secret at TL9 is the ability to dump waste heat from the PP into a different brane, probably not one that's also a J-Space dimension.

And imagine the adventure possibilities of the denizens of that dimension finding out who's dumping all that waste heat into their universe and deciding that something needs to be done once and for all to stop that pollution!

 

[Condottiere]

That's the plot of Discovery Season One.

 

[BRover]

Ever wonder if there is more than one time dimension? Space has three dimensions, add time for spacetime. What if time itself has three dimensions so six in total but we only perceive spacetime as three space and one time.

Traveller most definitely postulates the existence of extra dimensions, but they are not the hidden dimensions of string theory, they are more akin to alternate universes with different laws of physics.

Heinlein had something like this in a later book or two--The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, 1985 IIRC.

 

[Condottiere]

I outgrew Heinlein before I finished reading his books:

Thus begins the series of adventures that the four embark upon as they travel in the Gay Deceiver, which is equipped with the professor's "continua" device and armed by the Australian Defence Force. The continua device was built by Professor Burroughs while he was formulating his theories on n-dimensional non-Euclidean geometry. The geometry of the novel's universe contains six dimensions; the three spatial dimensions known to the real world, and three time dimensions: t, the real world's temporal dimension, τ (tau), and т (teh). The continua device can travel on all six axes. The continua device allows travel into various fictional universes, such as the Land of Oz, as well as through time. An attempt to visit Barsoom takes them to an apparently-different version of Mars, seemingly under the colonial rule of the British and Russian Empires, but near the end of the novel, Heinlein's recurring character Lazarus Long hints that they had traveled to Barsoom and that its "colonial" status was an illusion imposed on them by the telepathically adept Barsoomians:

...E.R.B.'s universe is no harder to reach than any other and Mars is in its usual orbit. But that does not mean that you will find Jolly Green Giants and gorgeous red princesses dressed only in jewels. Unless invited, you are likely to find a Potemkin Village illusion tailored to your subconscious....

Title
In the novel, the biblical number of the beast turns out to be not 666 but {\displaystyle (6^{6})^{6}}(6^{6})^{6} or 10,314,424,798,490,535,546,171,949,056,[1] the initial number of parallel universes accessible through the continua device. It is later theorized by the character Jacob that the number may be merely the instantly accessible universes from a given location and that there is a larger structure that implies an infinite number of universes.

 

[Proneutron]

THIS is canon.

 

[Timerover51]

THIS is canon.

Hmmm, a French 1897 75mm cannon. This is also a cannon.

Canon refers to a collections of writings deemed authoritative, generally used to refer to the collection of writings which are the basis for two major religions.

 

[Condottiere]

One recoils, one retcons.

 

[Proneutron]

Canon refers to a collections of writings deemed authoritative, generally used to refer to the collection of writings which are the basis for two major religions.

It also refers to a projectile weapon. E.g. le Canon de 75 modèle 1897

 

[Timerover51]

It also refers to a projectile weapon. E.g. le Canon de 75 modèle 1897

The language of the forum is English, not French.

 

[Proneutron]

The language of the forum is English, not French.

Canon spelled either way is a FRENCH word. The original ENGLISH word for it (cane) was REPLACED by the FRENCH word sometime after 1066. Blame it on King Godwinson if you'd like. 40-55% of our noun vocabulary is FRENCH. So, if you want to use the ENGLISH word for it, use CANE. Understand now?

 

[robject]

I understand that native Vilani-speakers often get stuck on the pre-interstellar linguistic history of Terra.
Who am I kidding? Even Solomani Anglic-speakers do.

Thankfully, this is not the place to split hairs in this manner over pre-interstellar Terran linguistic history.

Therefore, in the spirit of interstellar fidelity to the Imperium, if you cannot stand to use the Anglic term,
then please use the Vilani term diimshamim, translated as follows:

883 [B]diimshamim[/B] diim.sha.mim n.  (colloquially used as an adjectival)

   authority (for information/standards)

And its antonym:

814 [B]dazirgu[/B] da.zir.gu n. (from ziru). (colloquially used as an adjectival)

   Non-authority

EXAMPLES

Collector canopies are diimshamim.
Jump torpedoes are dazirgu.
1248 is neither diimshamim nor dazirgu.
Virus and the Wave are diimshamim... but the The Golden Imperium / Lorenverse is also diimshamim. (Bake your noodle yet?)

 

[BRover]

EXAMPLES

1248 is neither diimshamim nor dazirgu.

But only until Schrödinger opens the box.