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Newbie curious about why Zhodani Consolate and Imperial forces are opposed

Condottiere said:
I would guess that non noble scientists and engineers career ladders probably look about the same as a military career, useful for achieving a specific goal, under noble supervision.
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My take on all this is that they are as two different and parallel chains of command. Keeping with Grav Moped comment about the Zhodani being the USSR, the analogy would be the psionic officers would be like the Political Commissars. They have (in many cases) no effective command, but oversee it.

Of course, Consular Guard units work differrent, as KGB units did...
 
Exactly. (That's the exact video clip...)


And they're The Stationary Bandits (wikipedia). They have hegemony because they have it, and because they're probably better than the alternatives (anarchy, outside conquest, or an alternate interstellar polity). Not because they're nice -- they aren't. But they're not any more ruthless than they have to be.

The reason they're "better" is the Stationary Bandit vs. Roving Bandit thing. Yeah, they're parasitic -- but they need to keep the host (civilization) alive and hopefully thriving in order to continue to exist as an ongoing multi-generational enterprise. Roving Bandits would have no interest in perpetuating civilization if they could steal it all now, and are therefore sub-optimal by comparison.

So, in the big picture, that's their main appeal: They plan to be around for the very long term, and aligning with them helps with you-and-yours being around for the long term too. Ends up sacrificing short-term gains, of course, and there's always a countercurrent looking for the quick Megacredit.

The Zhodani Consulate does the same thing, but with psionics added in.
 
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aramis said:
Just remember: the Imperium are the bad guys of the setting... (see also A1 to A4)
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While this is true on the beginings of Traveller, latter views of the Imperium show it as more benevolent, a kind of lesser evil
 
The image of the Imperium began to shift with the Fifth Frontier War, we were manipulated by Imperial propaganda :)

Duke Norris, the war hero, was also the duke ultimately responsible for arresting and detaining the senator, and inventing the media cover story.
Not to mention keeping news of the anti-Imperial unrest as quiet as possible.
 
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mike wightman said:
The image of the Imperium began to shift with the Fifth Frontier War, you were manipulated by Imperial propaganda.

Duke Norris, the war hero, was also the duke ultimately responsible for arresting and detaining the senator, and inventing the media cover story.
Not to mention keeping news of the anti-Imperial unrest as quiet as possible.
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I've seen it as NAVINT keeping it hushed up for their own reasons.

IMTU the IISS and their intel folks know better but are blocked from reporting by NAVINT (or rather, the powers that be prefer NAVINT's stories).
 
mike wightman said:
You mean the same naval intelligence service that kidnapped aliens, locked them up, and experimented on them?
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Now it looks like you’re alluding to conflating duty with a responsibility to act morally. That trick never works.

But it does highlight the idea that the Imperium aren’t good guys, just the ones in charge. IMTU it’s a regulated warlord capitalist polity with the most powerful of shareholders, the Irridium Throne, being just that, one of many shareholders. But do they use the subtle mental manipulation (as opposed to the blunt & obvious techniques used on the proles) that is pervasive amongst Zho leadership?
 
Spinward Flow said:
Oh ... so the Vampire Fleets and Virus are the "good guys" then ...? 🤯

I'm confuzzled. 😣
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See Infojunky's query...
infojunky said:
Are there really any Good Guys?
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No, not really.

The Imperium is softened from the definitely flat out evil dictatorship implied in early canonical CT adventures in later CT adventures, but there's not really any point where it is "good."

Indifferent? Oh, Hell yes!

Spewing propaganda sufficient to enlist Bill the Galactic Hero¹, all of Mantis Squad², and Miles Vorkosigan³... and probably also Colonel John Christian Falkenberg⁴, and others.

They don't need to be the good guys, they just need to ensure that you think the other empires are worse.... I felt that pretty clear in the CT version of TTA.

I suspect Warhammer 40k started life as GW's intended rules for a Traveller Minis Game... which was cancelled when GDW cancelled most licenses.

MegaTraveller again shows us a truly horrible, several "At least He's not Lucan", one "would be decent if you and axe Lucan for her to take over"...

And TTNE has a pretty clear line of "The 3I was not a good thing, but the collapse and virus were indeed far worse."

¹ Bill the Galactic Hero, David Harris and Harry Harrison
² Sten Allen Cole and Chris Bunch.
³ The Vorkosiverse Series, Lois McMaster Bujold
⁴ Falkenberg's Legion, Jerry Pournelle
 
Condottiere said:
There's the Japanese custom of getting their heiress daughter to marry a promising employee, in order to continue the family business.

The employee gets adopted, or adopts the wife's family name.

The Japanese (possibly the Chinese), and the Romans can adopt a distant relative to become the heir, if they didn't manage to produce one on their own.
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Not just the Japanese.

Gustav Georg Friedrich Maria Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach (born Gustav von Bohlen und Halbach; 7 August 1870 – 16 January 1950) was a German foreign service official who became chairman of the board of Friedrich Krupp AG after his marriage to Bertha Krupp on 15 October 1906, who had inherited the company at the death (on 22 November 1902) of her father, Friedrich Alfred Krupp (who had no sons).

German Emperor Kaiser Wilhelm II personally led a search for a suitable spouse for Bertha, as the Krupp empire could not be headed by a woman. Gustav was picked from his previous post at the Vatican. The Kaiser announced at the wedding that Gustav would be allowed to add the Krupp name to his own. Gustav became company chairman in 1909.
 
RAILYARD GAMES said:
Newbie here intends to operate in the 'Bowman Arm' area of District 268 and so knowing the history of the antagonism between Zhodani and Imperial forces not overly important...but it is of interest. So my question to this forum is regarding the reasons why they are opposed to each other. Perhaps there is a link to a good article or two that could be shared??? Or just a thumbnail explanation is also good.... Thank you.
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Psionics.

It got worse after the Psionic Suppressions. But Imperials don't trust Psionics and they're illegal in the Imperium.
 
1. I remember reading a rather fat book on the Krupp dynasty - I think it comes down to national security.

2. The gaming reason we have Psionic Repression, is so that we aren't playing the X-Men.
 
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