T5.09 Errata Discussion Thread

[agorski]

On page 337 of the BBB, omitted from T5.09, there's a formula for calculating the potential of a drive:

Drive Rating (potential) = 2 * EP/hull tonnage (optionally multiply by stage efficiency)

This formula appears to match the tables in T5.09.

I'd just pick a Collector with enough EP to meet or exceed the jump drive EP.

 

[agorski]

In the Drive tables starting on page 294 there is no data for the alternate Maneuver drives Orion 1-2-3 and Thrusters.

There's copious information on these drives starting on page 328, but no data anywhere on cost or tonnage, so these drives cannot currently be incorporated into starship designs.

 

[The Pakkrat]

In the Drive tables starting on page 294 there is no data for the alternate Maneuver drives Orion 1-2-3 and Thrusters.

There's copious information on these drives starting on page 328, but no data anywhere on cost or tonnage, so these drives cannot currently be incorporated into starship designs.

@ Agorski,
Check the chart on page 322. There you will find the tonnages and costs (at the bottom, per ton). Next, mate that data with Alternate, the Stage Effects on page 294. I think from those two pages you can incorporate the Orions, Thrusters and Maneuvers.

I see Thruster and Orion charts on page 331. They feature Stages: Experimental, Prototype, Early, Standard, Improved, Advanced and Ultimate.

I don't see the Modified, the Stage Effect, anywhere on any of the charts. It may be that they don't have Tech Level appearances different than Standard Stage. I'd default to Standard and call it "Modified" from Standard Stage TL, appearance, and effects of Modified Stage. You might do the same with Alternate.

 

[agorski]

Check the chart on page 322.

Cool. Thanks, missed that.

 

[agorski]

Spine Sensor Mount details missing

In the C Sensor Mounts table on page 299 the Spine entry has no details listed. Tons, Mod, and MCr should probably all be larger values than those listed for the similar Main mount. This hasn't been discussed anywhere that I can find. The same problem occurs in the Weapons and Defenses Mounts tables on following pages. Is this because ACS ships can't have a spinal mount?

 

[agorski]

In the C Sensor Mounts table on page 299 the Spine entry has no details listed. Tons, Mod, and MCr should probably all be larger values than those listed for the similar Main mount. This hasn't been discussed anywhere that I can find. The same problem occurs in the Weapons and Defenses Mounts tables on following pages. Is this because ACS ships can't have a spinal mount?

Just noticed that the C Sensor Mounts table on page 361 does NOT include Spine.

 

[agorski]

Page 498 Tech Level Stage Effects table

Many of the TLSE tables for ship component design do not include a column for tonnage. TLSE probably does not adjust tonnage for most components. For example, weapon, sensor, and defense mounts adjust tonnage based on range.

However, this table has a ShipMaker Tonnage column and says this applies to "objects". So what objects in a ship design does this apply to, if any? The main candidate that I can think of is computers, but the TLSE table for computers and consoles does not have a tonnage column.

Is this an anomaly and an errata candidate?

 

[sudnadja]

Moon stats apparently not correct in some cases

Some of these might be OTU rather which happens to mismatch the real world - I tried searching to see if these had already been mentioned but didn't find anything:

page 720 of the PDF, "Far Satellites":
* 5.09 states that Callisto is not tide locked. In the real solar system, it is tide locked. (this might be an intentional variation from the real universe)
* 5.09 says that "Callisto is Satellite En orbiting Jupiter" and that the orbit distance (semimajor axis?) is 1250000 km from Jupiter and also makes the claim that 90000 x 70 = 1250000: it does not. It equals 6300000. Callisto in reality orbits at 1882700 km and should be in orbit Eye. That paragraph appears to have reused Titan's semimajor axis from the previous page.

page 719 of the PDF, "Close Satellites":
* "Titan is Satellite Ee orbiting Saturn," - I suspect that is intended to be "Satellite Eye". In the next paragraph it uses orbit Ell, which would be incorrect.
* "Luna is Satellite Ell orbiting Terra, a World Size-8." on page 547 it is stated that Luna is (Sol 3 Em). Ell is correct but Em is not.

page 684, "Decimal Orbits":
* "Comet Halley approaches Sol to 0.586 AU, and retreats to 35.2 AU. Its orbit is O=7.8 [from 0.6 to 8.7]." - I believe this should be 1.6 to 8.7, not 0.6 to 8.7.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Page 498 Tech Level Stage Effects table
Many of the TLSE tables for ship component design do not include a column for tonnage. TLSE probably does not adjust tonnage for most components. For example, weapon, sensor, and defense mounts adjust tonnage based on range.

However, this table has a ShipMaker Tonnage column and says this applies to "objects". So what objects in a ship design does this apply to, if any? The main candidate that I can think of is computers, but the TLSE table for computers and consoles does not have a tonnage column.

Is this an anomaly and an errata candidate?

No errata needed?

There is, thankfully, a single TLSE table for everything, even if not all effects apply to all systems (as specified in the design sequence). Separate TLSE tables would be a pain...

Tonnage mod applies to e.g. armour and drives as per p293-294.

 

[Ackehece]

No errata needed?

There is, thankfully, a single TLSE table for everything, even if not all effects apply to all systems (as specified in the design sequence). Separate TLSE tables would be a pain...

Tonnage mod applies to e.g. armour and drives as per p293-294.

External grapples for pods and battle riders do add tonnage. As do all other hull fittings beyond basic skids. That includes all external mods such as wings and landing gear. These increase the dtonne displacement of the hull.
Anything inside the hull is part of the x hull dtonnnes and thus does not increase dtonnes at all.
I think there is a confusion here where people think we care about mass but what we are dealing with is volume taking up space inside a bigger volume. Since we can adjust the volume to some degree for most components and can puzzle them together inside the hull most things outside of the drives can be fit into any space.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

External grapples for pods and battle riders do add tonnage. As do all other hull fittings beyond basic skids. That includes all external mods such as wings and landing gear. These increase the dtonne displacement of the hull.

This has nothing to do with Tech Level Stage Effects (TLSE)?


Wings are sometimes added to the hull tonnage, sometimes included:

An Airframe Hull has Wings, Fins, and Landing Wheels included within the total hull tonnage.
A Streamlined Hull has no Wings and Fins. Adding Wings and Fins increases total hull tonnage.

Other hull fittings, such as grapples and landing gear, are included in hull tonnage, as far as I can see.

Pods and external craft are of course added to hull tonnage.

 

[Ackehece]

This has nothing to do with Tech Level Stage Effects (TLSE)?


Wings are sometimes added to the hull tonnage, sometimes included:

If they are not part of the base hull design (aka like adding fins to a lifting body to enhance maneuverability) the cost is an incease in dtonnes. Pg 290 section 6 table e

Other hull fittings, such as grapples and landing gear, are included in hull tonnage, as far as I can see.


Pg 288. Grapples
Each set consists of two 1 ton grapples, 1 for the .... and 1 for the host hull

Pg 290 section 6 table E gives tonnage additions for speciality addons for hulls and for landing gear other than skids.

Pods and external craft are of course added to hull tonnage.

That all said I believe the question was related to items inside the hull and how much of the tonnage they take up. And the answer is as long as they are not a defined displacement they should be capable of being placed without much issue.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Pg 288. Grapples
Each set consists of two 1 ton grapples, 1 for the .... and 1 for the host hull

Pg 290 section 6 table E gives tonnage additions for speciality addons for hulls and for landing gear other than skids.

Only wings and fins have an explicit exception, all other components go into the hull:

The Hull. The starship hull is the container into which all other components must be fitted.

 

[Grav_Moped]

EDIT: Wrong Version, nevermind.
Reposting as individual topic in a more suitable location.