Taking up the torch from DonM?

[BlackBat242]

I thought this was better asked here than in his eulogy thread.

With the unexpected and untimely passing of DonM, does anyone have any idea who might pick up this project now... or will it end with DonM's passing?

If I knew more about the HERO system in general, and about HeroTrav in specific I would volunteer - but I don't know enough about either to do more than muck it up - likely beyond fixing.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Might be a little soon to ask. Please ask again if you haven't heard anything by this time next week.

 

[shadowcat48li]

its a good question, Rob Bruce and I who wrote the original edition are still around, and I at least have some of his notes on what needed to happen going forward. so it wont end if I can do anything about it.

 

[BlackBat242]

Might be a little soon to ask. Please ask again if you haven't heard anything by this time next week.

Will do - with the below response I believe I won't need to bring it up again.

its a good question, Rob Bruce and I who wrote the original edition are still around, and I at least have some of his notes on what needed to happen going forward. so it wont end if I can do anything about it.

Thanks, I know that not only we who will be able to use the material will be grateful, I feel confident that DonM would feel gratitude for finishing his work.

 

[shadowcat48li]

I've got e-mails out to the powers that be, havent heard back yet, I will update folks when I get something

 

[robject]

THANK YOU for taking the initiative to at least think up some options here.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I thought this was better asked here than in his eulogy thread.

With the unexpected and untimely passing of DonM, does anyone have any idea who might pick up this project now... or will it end with DonM's passing?

If I knew more about the HERO system in general, and about HeroTrav in specific I would volunteer - but I don't know enough about either to do more than muck it up - likely beyond fixing.

If I understand correctly the HERO system is the old Champions' game system where you build a character with points (stats + skills + powers) and then assign "disadvantages" which will give you points towards building a character. You can essentially build any character you want by giving yourself a "Hero Bonus", which is any amount of points you and the GM deem reasonable.

Further, that the turn mechanic uses the impulse movement system, and where, like in Traveller, you roll for initiative during combat.

I'll be honest, although I applaud the efforts of DoM and anyone else who contributed to HERO Traveller, it does seem to be a bit redundant, because it seems easy to translate from one system to the next.

Was the intent to provide a new Traveller setting with superheroes?

 

[aramis]

Hero has no rolled initiative, per se. Everyone acting in a phase does so on their dex order. Only if there is a dex tie is it rolled; it remains the same from turn to turn.

High Dex goes early in their phases.
High speed goes in the early phases.

Note: Both of the GM's I played hero under broke dex ties in a given phase with Speed, THEN went to rolls.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, that sounds right.

But what was the thought behind a Traveller-HERO port or connection?

 

[whulorigan]

Yeah, that sounds right.

But what was the thought behind a Traveller-HERO port or connection?

HERO was a generic RPG system, like GURPS. Traveller-HERO was just Traveller ported into the HERO ruleset, similar to how GURPS-Traveller was ported over to the GURPS ruleset, or T20 was Traveller using the D20 game engine.

It had nothing to do with Superheroes.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I seem to recall that HERO is the latest iteration of the Champions' system, so it struck me as a possible superhero-crossover, which is why I asked the question.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[aramis]

I seem to recall that HERO is the latest iteration of the Champions' system, so it struck me as a possible superhero-crossover, which is why I asked the question.

Thanks for the clarification.

Hero System produces quite playable characters in non-Supers settings as low as 25 points; 50 points is a low level hero, 75 is an action hero (like McGuyver or BA Baracus), 100 is a street level super or a 00-level Agent, 150 is typical low-level 4-color, 25o is major name heroes, and 500 does Superman almost convincingly, and overdoes batman. Greek Gods run to 3000 points, Norse up to at least that much. A 0 point NPC is the normal man on the street. A –25 point is a dependent.

Ships, followers, and robots can be bought out of character points in many setttings...

 

[shadowcat48li]

characters for Traveller Hero were based on 150 pts originally

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, I seem to recall my friend's brother pointing at me and saying "You're not even a '10'!" referring to the Strength stat on the character sheet.

Thanks for the breakdown. Based on that 150 does seem kind of high, but that's just my knee jerk reaction. Most interesting.

 

[aramis]

Yeah, I seem to recall my friend's brother pointing at me and saying "You're not even a '10'!" referring to the Strength stat on the character sheet.

Thanks for the breakdown. Based on that 150 does seem kind of high, but that's just my knee jerk reaction. Most interesting.

As with GURPS, the later edition has had a little inflation.

It's important to note, tho', that most hero players DO NOT refer to base points... they usually refer to Active Points (base + disad total), and I'm a 3rd/4th ed player in the past, while 5th encourages slightly higher totals...

Looking in TH Bk1... the following points are recommended:

150 Base, 50 Disad, 200 AP	100 base, 50 disad, 150 AP
Star Viking Freelance Adventurer	Military Espionage Law Enforcement Merchant Exploration

All genres are to use Normal Characteristic maxima (in essence, you can't take the 8 primary atts above 20 without explicit permission from the GM, and even then doing so costs double for levels above 20), and adhere to the Traveller technology paradigm.

It's worth nothing that 100 and 150 point supers games are usually 200 and 250 AP respectively, and aren't restricted to normal human limits on atts, while 100 point heroic characters are 150 AP, and 150 point high powered characters are usually 200 AP...

Oh, and "Joe Normal" is flat 8's for primary atts...

 

[GypsyComet]

We found Hero a tricky balancing act for "normals". The default supers mode is too survivable and the standard options for normals, such as hit location and far more attacks being RKA, is rough on a PC. And that was Fantasy Hero, where healing magic is available. The level of magic medicine in Traveller is relatively low, but Hero characters are fairly involved to build, so the lethality vs "time to replace" is mismatched to me.

It didn't help that the first version of Star Hero was a deeply dissonant book.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I guess things have changed since I played in the 80s. There a 150 pt. character was something akin to a Marvel mutant; Iceman, Johnny Torch, what have you. You had a base 100 plus dis-advantages (fanatically hunted by VIPER or some such).

Based on what you put down, and drawing on my own impressions from way back when, if I wasn't a "10", and the stats on the character sheet represented extremely gifted individuals, then by definition you really couldn't create a Traveller HERO character that could survive the game.

It's my impression that Traveller characters are essentially highly trained soldiers, and the only offset they have is the Traveller weapons' technology. I seem to recall that the VIPER grunt at the back of the first Champions book was in the 125 pt. realm...but maybe I'm not recalling that correctly.

Anyway, I guess DoM had it all figured out. Oh well.

 

[shadowcat48li]

agreed on first ed Star Hero, there was an unpublished second ed that Don actually had a hand in, the actual second ed is for 6th ed, Traveller Hero was written for 5th, Don was working on the 6th Updated version

 

[Blue Ghost]

We found *snip*

It didn't help that the first version of Star Hero was a deeply dissonant book.

I didn't even know one was produced.

 

[GypsyComet]

agreed on first ed Star Hero, there was an unpublished second ed that Don actually had a hand in, the actual second ed is for 6th ed, Traveller Hero was written for 5th, Don was working on the 6th Updated version

I've never been involved in the Hero online community (due somewhat to my being the polar opposite* of most outspoken Hero players) but I've heard rumors that the first go at Star Hero suffered from competing dev teams, personal politics, and typical 80s gamer behavior.

I had a hand in T20, and noted later that it is different from the other system licensed Traveller. T20 stretched, beat, and arguably broke D20 to fit Traveller, while GURPS Traveller instead stretched, beat, and arguably broke Traveller to fit GURPS. It is one reason I have little enthusiasm for GURPS Traveller, and encapsulates the concern I have regarding Traveller Hero. I know how resilient Hero is, and how adaptable it *thinks* it is.

---
* when I bowed out, the "community" of 4th ed were busily optimizing their characters according to the oft-stated maxim that a character should properly represent his points. This same crowd went into uproar when Mystic Masters suggested its "Astral Projection" solution, as one simply did not hand out 90+ points like that. Flip that maxim on its head and you get closer to my approach, and the one strongly implied by the earlier editions when discussing Disads, as well as the reality of magic items in FH: "the points should represent the character." I ran into too many who simply could not absorb the idea, and walked away.