• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore

Murph

SOC-14 1K
I never liked the comic opera portrayal of the Solomani. I mean they were depicted as a cross between a Stalinist/Nazi empire with strong overtones of Mussolini's Italy thrown in. I always saw them as the counter balance to the Imperium, but freer, and more open in many ways. Kinda like the US in the early 1900's with the Imperium being the British Empire of the same period.

Also I never liked the use of what has become the symbol of the KKK/Aryan Nation (the circled cross) as the symbol of the Solomani. I understand that this was done on purpose to keep the players Imperial, but I think that the majority of the players would have chosen the Imperial side anyway.

This stereotype of despotic overlords and omnipresent secret service bothers me. The Imperium has just as wide an intellegence arm as the Solomani, and can be just as repressive.

Solomani, and proud of it.
 
I never really understood why racist Solomani ideology came about. It always seemed to me that the Solomani's greatest period was the Terran Confederation and the Old Earth Union, both of which appear to have been founded on the liberal values of free trade and commercial adventure (like the USA/Western Europe today).

The Rule of Man seems to have been a default empire that filled the shoes of the stagnant Vilani Imperium, rather as the British in India filled the vacuum left by the collapsing Moghul empire.

Surely those who looked to the Terran run governments in the Third Imperium would have looked back to Earth history and its great periods for inspiration, rather than develop the Nazi or Chinese Communist party-type ideology that dominated the Solomani party in the Third Imperium?

Hopefully Traveller 5 will explain
 
My gut feeling is that GDW and crew did it this way to prevent an "Us against the Evil Empire" sort of attitude from cropping up. So much was invested in the 3rd Imperium, they had to make to Solomani the bad guys. I just don't buy it.

I agree with Elliot that the great Solomani periods had more in common with the US/UK period of Terran history than with the Stalinist/Maoist period.

MY Solomani are good guys with democratic values living in an exciting Republic. The Imperium is pretty much the same.
 
I don't really mind the Solomani as they are as long as you keep several things in mind.

Just because the Solomani are stereotyped as jackboot Nazi wannabes, that doesn't mean that they are ALL jackbook Nazi wannabes. The Solomani's society could very well be a liberal, free-market society that, if left alone, would behave much like the US or Western Europe. However, insert into this society a superiority mentality by a small minority (and yes, a few million out of several hundred billion should be considered a minority), AND an Imperium that would like to maintain some semblence of peace, and there's bound to be some explosive clashes.

Try a modern day perspective: Israel vs. Palistine (and please, don't flame me for this... it's just an analogy!). Both sides are fighting for what they believe is right, what they believe is theirs, and are willing to use whatever means necessary to achieve their goals (political or otherwise). Into the mix toss a few radicals (like that group that sends in their boys as walking bombs), isolated fanatics, gun-happy soldiers, and a lot of "you're not us, we were here first" kind of p*ssing contest, and SOMEONE'S gonna come out looking like the bad guy regardless of whoever IS the bad guy.

Hey, just remember... the USA has their CIA, which aren't necessarily the world's greatest boyscouts. And they operate under the charter of the US government. But the CIA doesn't represent the everyday person, who probably are pretty sane for the most part (and probably not really liable to march off in jackboots either).

And, to be honest, the Imperium probably has their own internal problems and Nazi-like propaganda mills also.

In the end, though, just remember... whoever won the war usually got to write the history books. And the Solomani certainly didn't look like they won the war.

Skoo
 
Yeah, it would be in their interests. Like I mentioned before, it really depends the on the POV.

Someday, I'd like to run a campaign from the Solomani side. All the PCs are doing what they have to in order to achieve the Solomani's freedom from under the crushing tyrannical rule of the Imperium. They would, in all honesty, be fighting for Earth, Mom and apple pie (well, whatever passes of apple pie in the 50th century, anyway). And the thing is, I *would* make the Solomani people, and their government, into this honor-bound, freedom-loving, capitalistic, democratic society, *actually* fighting for their freedom against an Imperium that actually *is* a jackboot-tromping Nazi-like Evil Force (at least, around them).

Hey, so far *both* sides have considered themselves "democratic" and *both* sides have call each other the aggressors. But that doesn't mean that *either* side is right so far. All I know is that, to date, all the propaganda has been coming from the Imperial side and painting the Solomani black. Whoever said that the Imperium was in the "right"?
 
Part of it is I disagree with the whole SolSec/Monitor/Solomani Supremecy idea that is built into the Solomani. ALso the racist underpinnings of the whole published Solomani canon.

BTW I have both the GDW and Digest Group Solomani products, and think that the DG version is the better of the two.


Also go visit: http://users.sgi.net/~whkeith/

William H. Kieth, one of the Great Ones! A really nice guy.
 
Wow shameless self promotion , here of all places , who would have thought it . But on another topic ; I like the idea of a campaign from the Solomani perspective . It might help a player identify with their character.
 
I have this idea that the Solomani people and the Solomani government are not as intertwined as the Imperials may think. Sure, the Sollies are proud to be free of the Imperial aristocracy and to be descendants of Terra - but what keeps the confederation going is local connections and free trade.

In my mind, the Solomnani Confederation is rather like England during the rule of Oliver Cromwell. The military, de facto, were in power and a tiny proportion of Royalists and Catholics were persecuted (Ireland excepted), but by and large people's lives were unaffected by the regime.

This is true in the Confederation. The military and the party for historical reasons dominant interstellar government, but their policy is all about high politics and has very little effect on the people of the Confederation.

Most Solomani get on with their lives without consideration of their racist rulers and fear the tyranny of the Imperium more than the largely non-interfering Solsec and its pals.

This is not to say that there are moves afoot in the Confederation for a more politically acceptable government.
 
Are we dealing with denial issues here? What says that the home government of Terra 3,000 years hence won't be an authoritarian-wannabe police state? (See BLAKE'S 7 for one take.)

I think GDW mnake the Solomani different from the Imperium to encourage role-playing. They'd alrady said the Imperial culture was close to ours, so they didn't use that one. And the Vargr certainly weren't going to be a police state.

There are plenty of reformers and parties in the Solomani Sphere, so you didn't have to be a police state adherent to be a Solomani. Just think of all the Russians who wanted something else, and then figure in the border regions as Warsaw Pact regions with their own native cultures and a supported elite, and then:
You have plenty of room for role-playing.

My two cents.
 
See, I must politely disagree with Clay here. I think that it was the intent to turn the Solomani into Benito Mussolini's Italy in order to keep the players in the Imperial camp as it were. I just disagree with this outlook.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clay Bush:
Are we dealing with denial issues here? What says that the home government of Terra 3,000 years hence won't be an authoritarian-wannabe police state? (See BLAKE'S 7 for one take.)

I think GDW mnake the Solomani different from the Imperium to encourage role-playing. They'd alrady said the Imperial culture was close to ours, so they didn't use that one. And the Vargr certainly weren't going to be a police state.

There are plenty of reformers and parties in the Solomani Sphere, so you didn't have to be a police state adherent to be a Solomani. Just think of all the Russians who wanted something else, and then figure in the border regions as Warsaw Pact regions with their own native cultures and a supported elite, and then:
You have plenty of room for role-playing.

My two cents.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
I like having the solomani be speciesist, but quite non-racist amongst terran-descents. I never saw them as the fascists some of you have, though. Politcal police are a reality in many forms of government, including (for a period in the 1950's) our own. Can we say House Un American Affairs Committee (and the Senator who seemed to think he was a member of a house comittee... Tailgunner Joe..)?

I see the Solomani, as portrayed in the 1050-1120 period covered in AM Solomani and in Solomani and Aslan reacting to a severance related to a war of independance based upon a strongly held pseudo religious "We are the True Humans" ideology. Much like my deluded grandmother still thinks african-americans aren't capable of being mentally adult. I see the Confederation as sort of a "White Man's Burden" situation instead of the "Jim Crow" y'all are implying.

As for monitors, political police, the one party confederation... all reminants of the SRW. They're not out to lock you up, just take away your vote and genuinely believe the confederation NEEDS their services.

They use the astronicical/astrological symbol for earth as their symbol: it represents their conquered capitol, the seat of the solomani sphere's government before the war.

IMHO, they split because they were forced to accept "minor" races as equal members, at least until they split in the SRW. They had to have their democracy answer to a hereditary nobility; another bad idea. And, like so many revolutionairies, they went well overboard. They honestly feel that the uplifts aren't truly citizen material. They feel the local minor racces are justifiably in need of protection. And, as for human minors, well, marry into a terran line, and your children can be citizens (much like the US did with chinese in the late 1800's, and the Japanese in the late 1930's and 40's.)

We don't know with current science if chimp-human hybrids are possible, but in most states of the US, even trying to find out is a crime. And DOE has slammed the door on cold fusion research... to the point of siezing labs in the 90's. Terror comes in many forms... and we are not immune. So the grander issues of the Confederation are "Terrans First, Humans Second, ad others waaayyy down the line, and finally the 3I" minded.

As for the actions during the 2d ICW aka the Rebellion, they want their capital and all their lost worlds. The party influence makes for a wonderfully rich set of roleplaying experiences prior to the war, some of which are consciousness boosters for the players. And after, well whom do you trust?

And since Vilani and Terrans have different numbers of teeth... they're distinguishable. As for Syleans, well, canon doesn't tell. But the Geonee aren't passable for terrans on the norm, and other human minors have visible (or at least testable) distinctiveness. Like Zhodani having Blood types O, M and N...

Such distinctiveness fuels raciscm. But not of need the overt "Slave Mentality" of the American South theough the 1940's. Little things, like always talking to obviously vilani individuals as if they were children. Or the pre WWI german Jews... they lived apart, both by custom and law. They weren't part of the establishment in many cases. And they were able to get exemptions from certain requirements. But that made them targets.

Also of note: Since Cymbelline is in the Confed... no self respecting confed citizen would acknowledge that a chip could be sentient. A computer, maybe. but a single abulatory silicon life form? And it also means that the Shudasham question doesn't matter to the Confed: They're not terrans, so can't join the Party, and can't take over as long as the party is vigilant.

------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
 
As to the Cymbeline chip business - I seem to remember that before the virus wiped out interstellar government there was a move by the Solomani faction led by Joshua Davin to integrate the chips into Solomani ideology. After the Cymbeline chips owed their evolution to a crashed Terran trader!!

I actually thought the rise of Joshua Davin's liberal Solomani faction was a good good way to take the Solomani. If Virus had not happened and the Hard Times campaign had continued, the effect of the pan-sentient movement and perhaps the re-discovery of the notion of universal rights in the Sol Confed would have made for an interesting backdrop as the Confed tore itself apart. Alas, never to be . . .
 
This is a good idea, and I agree with you to some extent. I think that if Terra was regained the Solomani would start looking outward for colonization and the paranoia that the Imperium causes would be lessened.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliot:
I have this idea that the Solomani people and the Solomani government are not as intertwined as the Imperials may think. Sure, the Sollies are proud to be free of the Imperial aristocracy and to be descendants of Terra - but what keeps the confederation going is local connections and free trade.

In my mind, the Solomnani Confederation is rather like England during the rule of Oliver Cromwell. The military, de facto, were in power and a tiny proportion of Royalists and Catholics were persecuted (Ireland excepted), but by and large people's lives were unaffected by the regime.

This is true in the Confederation. The military and the party for historical reasons dominant interstellar government, but their policy is all about high politics and has very little effect on the people of the Confederation.

Most Solomani get on with their lives without consideration of their racist rulers and fear the tyranny of the Imperium more than the largely non-interfering Solsec and its pals.

This is not to say that there are moves afoot in the Confederation for a more politically acceptable government.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Yes, I can live with this. Stiff upper lip and all that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:

I see the Solomani, as portrayed in the 1050-1120 period covered in AM Solomani and in Solomani and Aslan reacting to a severance related to a war of independance based upon a strongly held pseudo religious "We are the True Humans" ideology. Much like my deluded grandmother still thinks african-americans aren't capable of being mentally adult. I see the Confederation as sort of a "White Man's Burden" situation instead of the "Jim Crow" y'all are implying.

As for monitors, political police, the one party confederation... all reminants of the SRW. They're not out to lock you up, just take away your vote and genuinely believe the confederation NEEDS their services.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
I think that the Solomani can be used in a more "open" gaming setting, where there are still brave new worlds to explore, Alien races to contact, etc. Moresoever than the Imperium which has nowhere else to expand. And since we have seen the conquest is not really an option, a freewheeling exploration game, the Solomani are the only game in town.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murph:
I think that the Solomani can be used in a more "open" gaming setting, where there are still brave new worlds to explore, Alien races to contact, etc. Moresoever than the Imperium which has nowhere else to expand. And since we have seen the conquest is not really an option, a freewheeling exploration game, the Solomani are the only game in town.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or the Zhodani. Or any of the other periferal (sp?) powers.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaveShayne:
Or the Zhodani. Or any of the other periferal (sp?) powers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but The Zhodani and others (Hivers, K'Kree, Aslan and Vargr) are significantly different psycologically from us as players. While this certainly makes them interesting, they can be quite a challenge to play for many players. The Solomani much closer to us (indeed, they ARE us, our distant descendants) and therefore make for easier play.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Cleon:
True, but The Zhodani and others (Hivers, K'Kree, Aslan and Vargr) are significantly different psycologically from us as players. While this certainly makes them interesting, they can be quite a challenge to play for many players. The Solomani much closer to us (indeed, they ARE us, our distant descendants) and therefore make for easier play.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is that.
 
Someone earlier was complaining about the use of the Circled cross as the Solomani symbol. I beleive it was used for one reason.
The circle and cross design is the astronomical symbol for Sol, our sun. So I would say that was the reason for the symbol.
 
Back
Top