The States of Glimmerdrift Reaches

[GypsyComet]

Running around in the wiki, I tripped over the Shukikikar League in Glimmerdrift. It's on the modern map, but has no published sources as far as the Wiki is notated. The given history clashes with Gateway to Destiny, as well. Any thoughts on the matter?

 

[Enoki]

This is my take on them in the Traveller wiki

Shukikikar League - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

The Shukikikar League initially formed in 890 with its capitol in the Shukikikar (world) system with several adjoining systems. The intent of the League at that time was to unify the coreward part of the subsector and expand to have a common border with the Third Imperium. The Shukikikar league took advantage of the Imperium's focus on the Solomani Rim War to invade a number of nearby systems. After a period of initial success ending in 1022, the League bogged down in a series of prolonged sieges and wars of attrition. The Imperium gave assistance to a number of systems opposing the League as a way to keep their power in check. In 1101, a temporary alliance between systems opposed to the League, as the Slovenian Protectorate, made a successful assault on Shukikikar (world) that ended with the destruction of the League's capitol in a nuclear war. The Shukikikar League's capitol was re-established on Ardi (world) shortly afterwards. Since 1101, the League's focus has been defensive and focused on rebuilding their client systems.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

I’ve been working from “Gateway to Destiny” circa 990, primarily using the political descriptions, forward to 1105 as a framework, not canon, to create a “history” of how the current map evolved. One important thing that I observed is that the population numbers were totally re-written, especially in Crucis Margin, and rather than try to reconcile that with mass migration or mass extinction, I’ve been using my own recalculated population figures from an 1105 baseline. The UWP and population figures below are directly from the 1105 data at https://travellermap.com, because I haven’t retconned them yet.

Between 990 and 1105 The Federate Republic consisted of 11 worlds with a population of 215 mm, highest TL 12, although the majority of the population ~ 165 mm are TL6. Somewhere in that timeframe it ceased to exist.

The Federate Republic is (was) a loose collection of worlds, and “The Federate is strongly Solomani in terms of culture and outlook, though its links to the Solomani Confederation are tenuous at best. Within broad limits, member worlds are free to establish their own foreign policy, so relations with other polities vary from world to world.” Gateway to Destiny, QuikLink Interactive, Inc., 2004 p. 58. The Spinward worlds “are somewhat influenced by the Imperium” and Imperial naval ships call on their ports. Which implies that not all of the worlds are Imperium neutral, creating a recipe for failure during the Solomani War.

By 1105 (per the map), four of those worlds joined the Shukikikar League, a political organization of 12 worlds with a population of ~ 811 mm. Five of the worlds with a population of ~ 401 mm are spacefaring TL > 9, the highest being TL 13 Ardi with ~ 300 mm. The four that joined the League from the defunct Federate Republic are: Shumi Kiri, Igkhud, 924-759 and Blazing Sky. The first two have a TL 10 and 12 but a population of < 1mm combined. The second two are TL 5 and 6 with a population of ~ 130 mm or ~ 16% of the Shukikikar League population (and ~60% of the old Republic.)

What happened between 990 and 1105? During the Solomani Rim War, the Imperium didn’t need another enemy on it’s border so it used T5 Resource Units to secretly entice several NOT anti Imperium planets into a new confederation. They didn’t need to be pro Imperium, just anti Solomani (enough). Several worlds along the border were / are fiercely independent and could not possibly join a pro Imperium polity, and expect to continue to holding power. Early into the hostilities, Imperium Intelligence using “neutral” brokers set up a conference at the interdicted world of Shukikikar, to form a multi world alliance with the two fold goal of protecting the independence of the member states against Imperium encroachment, and to defend the members from the anticipated rise in piracy and Solomani commerce raiding.

Further intelligence efforts were expended to portray the Solomani as racist, expansionist opportunists, turning the tide of public opinion on the League worlds against the Solomani, convincing them that both sides would deprive them of their Independence. But at least the Imperium paid for goods and services, rather than pirating goods, like the filthy, desperate Solomani.

The business interests of the Shukikikar League worlds have always needed Imperium markets, but years of independent political posturing required them to walk a narrow rope. The mercantile interests were brought to bear on the governments leading them to join the League in the best interests of the Independent worlds.

Also there’s a concern about the Oligarchy of Lunber.

Alternatively, everyone who wanted to stay neutral decided to form a league of worlds and the Imperium was fine with their neutrality vs. a pro Solomani thorn in their side. See Spain and Brazil during WWII. They formed the League at secret conferences orbiting the interdicted world of Shukikikar, to allay the concerns that one world might dominate the new confederation.

 

[GypsyComet]

The Shukikikar League initially formed in 890 with its capitol in the Shukikikar (world) system with several adjoining systems. The intent of the League at that time was to unify the coreward part of the subsector and expand to have a common border with the Third Imperium. The Shukikikar league took advantage of the Imperium's focus on the Solomani Rim War to invade a number of nearby systems.

That's the crux of the matter. The League isn't on the Gateway to Destiny map for 990, and several of its worlds belong to other states. Its capital is unaligned.

Shift its founding to just after the 990 map (say, 992) and it can still use the Rim War as a distraction, and the posited internal unrest arising from unfulfilled promises, the war that leaves two worlds nuclear wastelands, and the dissolution of some of its competition still have room on the calendar.

Appearing just after the 990 map puts it in the same Get Smart situation ("Missed it *that much*!") as the 1105 map misses the Federation of Arden and the occupation of the Renkard Union, but that's the nature of static maps combined with a moving calendar.

 

[infojunky]

That's the crux of the matter. The League isn't on the Gateway to Destiny map for 990, and several of its worlds belong to other states. Its capital is unaligned.

Shift its founding to just after the 990 map (say, 992) and it can still use the Rim War as a distraction, and the posited internal unrest arising from unfulfilled promises, the war that leaves two worlds nuclear wastelands, and the dissolution of some of its competition still have room on the calendar.

Appearing just after the 990 map puts it in the same Get Smart situation ("Missed it *that much*!") as the 1105 map misses the Federation of Arden and the occupation of the Renkard Union, but that's the nature of static maps combined with a moving calendar.

Great, yet another section map to look at.

 

[Enoki]

That's the crux of the matter. The League isn't on the Gateway to Destiny map for 990, and several of its worlds belong to other states. Its capital is unaligned.

Shift its founding to just after the 990 map (say, 992) and it can still use the Rim War as a distraction, and the posited internal unrest arising from unfulfilled promises, the war that leaves two worlds nuclear wastelands, and the dissolution of some of its competition still have room on the calendar.

Appearing just after the 990 map puts it in the same Get Smart situation ("Missed it *that much*!") as the 1105 map misses the Federation of Arden and the occupation of the Renkard Union, but that's the nature of static maps combined with a moving calendar.

I looked at all that and canon and tried to fit the narrative around it. One would expect a newly formed, and somewhat amorphous political entity not to show up immediately on maps, so there is a lag between events and the map catching up.

 

[GypsyComet]

so there is a lag between events and the map catching up.

I get that, but a century is a LOT of lag.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

The Shukikikar League initially formed in 890 with its capitol in the Shukikikar (world) system with several adjoining systems. The intent of the League at that time was to unify the coreward part of the subsector and expand to have a common border with the Third Imperium. The Shukikikar league took advantage of the Imperium's focus on the Solomani Rim War to invade a number of nearby systems. After a period of initial success ending in 1022, the League bogged down in a series of prolonged sieges and wars of attrition. The Imperium gave assistance to a number of systems opposing the League as a way to keep their power in check. In 1101, a temporary alliance between systems opposed to the League, as the Slovenian Protectorate, made a successful assault on Shukikikar (world) that ended with the destruction of the League's capitol in a nuclear war. The Shukikikar League's capitol was re-established on Ardi (world) shortly afterwards. Since 1101, the League's focus has been defensive and focused on rebuilding their client systems.

Shukikikar was already interdicted with population of 4 and TL of 3 in 990, per Gateway to Destiny. I'm not working from canon, just citing my sources for the retcon I'm working on.

Do you think the Imperium would have supplied the nuclear weapons or condoned the use of nukes? An honest question, more at how evil is your Imperium, because I thought they historically wanted a monopoly on nukes, and would extend that beyond the immediate border wherever they could. Or did their proxies go rogue? (Hussein thought he would not be punished when Iraq invaded Kuwait, due to a diplomatic misunderstanding screw up). I'm guessing the Slovenian Protectorate dissolves before 1105.

Any thoughts on the rest of the neighborhood?
Pinkatto: Pop 8 BN, TL 13, Balkanized in 990, Bureaucracy in 1105. It shows as a member of the Imperium in 990 and as NaHu in 1105. Maybe that's an issue to report to the travellermap.
Lunber: Pop 60 BN, TL 9, Oligarchy, off the charts oppressive Law H. Why are they so authoritarian? How terrifying is it there? Why haven't they taken over everyone around them? Is it basically North Korea, except with resources and efficiency (16 and +5).
Dreesen: Pop 8 BN, TL 6, Oligachy, Industrialized. What are they producing that the rest of the universe wants? Aside from clothing and fabric, I'm at a loss for other mass produced goods that would make that world a place to trade with or visit.

 

[Enoki]

Shukikikar was already interdicted with population of 4 and TL of 3 in 990, per Gateway to Destiny. I'm not working from canon, just citing my sources for the retcon I'm working on.

Do you think the Imperium would have supplied the nuclear weapons or condoned the use of nukes? An honest question, more at how evil is your Imperium, because I thought they historically wanted a monopoly on nukes, and would extend that beyond the immediate border wherever they could. Or did their proxies go rogue? (Hussein thought he would not be punished when Iraq invaded Kuwait, due to a diplomatic misunderstanding screw up). I'm guessing the Slovenian Protectorate dissolves before 1105.

Any thoughts on the rest of the neighborhood?
Pinkatto: Pop 8 BN, TL 13, Balkanized in 990, Bureaucracy in 1105. It shows as a member of the Imperium in 990 and as NaHu in 1105. Maybe that's an issue to report to the travellermap.
Lunber: Pop 60 BN, TL 9, Oligarchy, off the charts oppressive Law H. Why are they so authoritarian? How terrifying is it there? Why haven't they taken over everyone around them? Is it basically North Korea, except with resources and efficiency (16 and +5).
Dreesen: Pop 8 BN, TL 6, Oligachy, Industrialized. What are they producing that the rest of the universe wants? Aside from clothing and fabric, I'm at a loss for other mass produced goods that would make that world a place to trade with or visit.

Do you really think that a polity of a number of worlds with TL's up to 13 couldn't simply make their own nukes? The Imperium couldn't stop that from happening.

Luber, Dressen, and Pinkatto are worlds that the Shukikikar tried to take and now have varying levels of hate and discontent going on. That would make sense. Call them paranoid with a reason. I would put most of the worlds close to the Shukikikar in that boat. They probably don't particularly like the Imperium much either as it's likely the Imperium wants them under their thumb, even if not member worlds to keep them out of Shukikikar hands.

 

[GypsyComet]

Do you really think that a polity of a number of worlds with TL's up to 13 couldn't simply make their own nukes? The Imperium couldn't stop that from happening.

As long as they have native fissionables, their TL makes that knowledge pretty common, I agree.

Pinkatto was an Imperial but Balkanized world in 990, and now is neither. That's according to the Atlas of the Imperium (CT) and Gateway to Destiny (T20), the two primary sources for this sector. To me that says unification war won by someone who wasn't in line with the Imperials, and who somehow survived the exit process. They've lost a TL in the process, though.

These worlds definitely have a story to tell.

My main objection is that one of the primary sources was ignored.

Shukikikar was obviously a figurehead capital. It's never shown a port or very many people. Dollars to donuts the prime driver of the League has *always* been Ardi, the current capital. The ruse worked, as they didn't get nuked during the "we all hate Shukikikar" war, but the rapid move of the capital to Ardi is telling.

As for why the Federate Republic and the GTC were overwritten when the sector was re-updated to 1105, a look at the old redline map shows a sizable state in this spot.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Shukikikar was obviously a figurehead capital.

Heh. That sounds like an Old Man's War move (series by John Scalzi).

In that series, "The Humans" have some colony worlds ... one of which is Terra.
That's right. In that universe, Terra is classified as a colony world (and a rather backwards low tech one at that, not worth anyone's time to look twice at).

The Colonial Defense Forces (CDF), basically the human military protecting humanity and all of the colonies in a galaxy full of aliens squabbling over habitable territory (some of which find humans "tasty") has their official capital at New Phoenix along with their military headquarters, shipyards ... the whole nine yards.

The reason WHY the humans did this is one of the mysteries (and honestly, rather clever chess moves by the human species) lurking in the background of the entire series, so for anyone who hasn't read it I won't be spoiling the Clever Bits™ of that gambit here.

And yes ... it was very very clever ...

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

My main objection is that one of the primary sources was ignored.

Shukikikar was obviously a figurehead capital. It's never shown a port or very many people. Dollars to donuts the prime driver of the League has *always* been Ardi, the current capital. The ruse worked, as they didn't get nuked during the "we all hate Shukikikar" war, but the rapid move of the capital to Ardi is telling.

As for why the Federate Republic and the GTC were overwritten when the sector was re-updated to 1105, a look at the old redline map shows a sizable state in this spot.

What's the missing state in the unknown red-line map?

World Name

SubSector

Hex

UWP

UWP Code

Bas

Zn

PBG

Worlds

Ally

Habitants

Imp

Econx

Cultx

Nishlishurkha

C: Tri-Empire

1904​

A545833-B

Pa Ph Pi

-

-

120

6

SlLg

100,000,000

{ 2 }

(C7C-1)

[5A28]

Lunber

C: Tri-Empire

2003​

C565ACH-9

Hi Pz

-

A

604

13

NaHu

60,000,000,000

{ 1 }

(G9B+5)

[FBAE]

Ardi

C: Tri-Empire

2204​

B100833-D

Na Va Ph Cx Pi

KM

-

310

9

SlLg

300,000,000

{ 3 }

(B7E+1)

[5B2A]

Shukikikar

C: Tri-Empire

2306​

X553200-3

Lo Po Fo

-

R

205

13

SlLg

200

{ -3 }

(410-5)

[1111]

I don’t see the league as being that aggressive, the two primary worlds are Impersonal Bureaucracies, with each with a Law Level of 3, not good candidates for repressive, expansionist, militarists. I can see them joining together against Lunber, the crazy repressive Law Level H Oligarchs next door, who are big enough with Population 60 BN to flaunt nuclear weapon use in the face of a preoccupied Imperium.

Can anyone with sufficient TL build nukes? Yes. If you are a pissant world at the edge of the Imperium, would you use them aggressively, and invite a visit from Uncle Imperium, who projects that they have a monopoly on Nukes? But with 60 Billion, Lunber could probably get away with nuking Shukikikkar and Dilugii to teach the rest of their neighbors a lesson.

 

[GypsyComet]

What's the missing state in the unknown red-line map?

It was originally unnamed, since that map is a *very* early artifact of the growing setting. Traveller Map digitized it, and you can see it by zooming out a bit. Smaller versions of the red line map also appear in a few books, usually in greyscale.
The now non-Canon version of the sector by Judges Guild called it the Marlan Primate. That version's system positions and system and polity names were entirely replaced by the Atlas of the Imperium, while many of the subsector names were retained. Tri-Empire Subsector was so named by Judges Guild, and the name stuck. That is probably due to Hunter Gordon (of QLI and T20) being a fan of the Judges Guild material.

The QLI adventure "Chimera" (now in Marc's T20 CD collection) actually has a cursory description of Pinkatto in the Rim War era, and is where the description of the Federate Republic comes from.

 

[GypsyComet]

I don’t see the league as being that aggressive

Not with a total population of a hair over 720 million spread across that many systems. That's LOTS of room. With the original (likely Ardi) leadership wanting to poke the Imperium in the eye for whatever reason but widely discredited by 1105, their figurehead capital nuked, and most of their other external foes collapsed, they have only the memory of spite to drive them to aggression. Lunber lacks the infrastructure to make use of their vast population to really threaten the League at this point, and the Imperium, with its long memory and capacity for patience in such cases, it probably just keeping an eye on the situation to make sure no more nukings occur. I'd bet the League knows that, too.

 

[Enoki]

Lunber probably sends lots and lots--by the tens of thousands--of "volunteers" to stir up mischief in League territory. They have the population to spare and who's going to refuse an offer from the government to go? It'd keep the League busy enough that even though they'd like to smack Lunber down for it, they are too busy playing Whack-a-mole, terrorist?, on their own turf to put together the forces and more importantly, the cash, to do one.
Lunber could be building super cheap little, one-way ships that they pack with their volunteers to flood into League territory. So the League gets 70, 80% or more of them before they can arrive. Those that do become a constant thorn in their side.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

It was originally unnamed, since that map is a *very* early artifact of the growing setting. Traveller Map digitized it, and you can see it by zooming out a bit. Smaller versions of the red line map also appear in a few books, usually in greyscale.
The now non-Canon version of the sector by Judges Guild called it the Marlan Primate. That version's system positions and system and polity names were entirely replaced by the Atlas of the Imperium, while many of the subsector names were retained. Tri-Empire Subsector was so named by Judges Guild, and the name stuck. That is probably due to Hunter Gordon (of QLI and T20) being a fan of the Judges Guild material.

The QLI adventure "Chimera" (now in Marc's T20 CD collection) actually has a cursory description of Pinkatto in the Rim War era, and is where the description of the Federate Republic comes from.

Oh that redline map, I didn't realize it was referred to as that. I have a poster somewhere. This is all very informative @GypsyComet & @Enoki. This whole project started out with copy of JG Glimmerdrift Sector sitting unused in a drawer for years. The Chinese, Arab, and Hindi polities would never get published in today's universe. I have the T20 CD, just have not had time to digest it all. Thanks for pointing out Chimera, I think my players are going to like it.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

Lunber lacks the infrastructure to make use of their vast population to really threaten the League at this point,

These are the economic stats pulled from the travellermap for Lunber. (G9B+5). What am I missing about Infrastructure B compared to Population A? Maybe I've overlooked some rules or descriptions? Or is the cited data under review and about to be revised?

Interesting scenario for adventurers to smuggle Lunber infiltrators onto Shukikikur worlds. Lunber sounds like a place many people want to leave, creating a refugee migration problem for Lunber's neighbors. It also sounds very DDR East German where most refugees never get out alive.

 

[GypsyComet]

I was mostly referring to the lack of commercial shipyards. Any ship building at Lunber is by and for government use, and is, for the most part, a whopping TL9.

Hmm. Nishlishurkha, next to Lunber, sees a hundred-fold increase in population from 990 to 1105. That many people would still be lost in the round-off for Lunber, and too much for Nish to do on its own, so I suspect Lunber is dumping populace in a power play for the neighboring system, and the League keeps soaking them up like Groucho's Stateroom scene in A Night at the Opera. Perhaps Lunber was shipping people by the thousands as fast as they could build deathtrap... er, "colonial transports" and the League offered Nish membership to counter the population shuffle play. The peasants of Lunber think Nish is a prison colony, but the locals, with fairly high end fabrication tech and plenty of space, just kept building towns and filling them with "refugees".

Eventually Nish started refurbishing the scores and hundreds of rattletrap transports and selling them to other League worlds. So called "Lunber Deathtraps", cleaned up, re-certified, and frequently painted in colors Lunber would find scandalous, make up a notable portion of League shipping. League laws strongly discourage taking any of the refurbished ships back to the Lunber system, but it does happen. Most Captains know better than to fly a League flag into the Lunber system. Lunber uses the same hulls for commerce under carefully controlled conditions, and all the neighbors can tell an original Deathtrap from the League refurbished version fairly easily; the uncalibrated whine of the M-Drive, the tendency for things to fall off during re-entry and landing, and how the crew behaves.

 

[Spinward Flow]

all the neighbors can tell an original Deathtrap from the League refurbished version fairly easily; the uncalibrated whine of the M-Drive, the tendency for things to fall off during re-entry and landing, and how the crew behaves.

The differentials in the prices for insurance are also a DEAD giveaway ... {rimshot}

 

[GypsyComet]

The only way in which Nish actually is a prison is that the fanatics Enoki mentions get screened when they are caught. The misguided ones get sent to Nish, one way only. The helplessly regime-programmed political officers are "never captured". There are several reads of that phrase, and most of them apply in one case or another. This region had a nasty war in the recent past, and the League (the losing winners) have not forgotten that.