Brian Smaller
SOC-12
I must have missed something. IN 2320 mankind has kicked the Kafer's butt once and for all right? What happened between the end of "Invasion" and 2320?
What the hell happened in the 2nd Kafer War
- Thread starter Brian Smaller
- Start date
Brian,
Short story: The Pentapod-created, Kafer-specific, bio-weapon the late 2300AD materials broadly hinted at was deployed.
For various completely implausible verging on bullsh*t in-game reasons - and the overriding meta-game reason that there still being Kafers around for 2320AD players to shoot - only the Kafer homeworld got dosed with the bio-weapon.
So, the French Arm is still trashed, the Ylii worlds are still occupied, and the Kafer are still skulking around on and near their colony worlds.
Regards,
Bill
Short story: The Pentapod-created, Kafer-specific, bio-weapon the late 2300AD materials broadly hinted at was deployed.
For various completely implausible verging on bullsh*t in-game reasons - and the overriding meta-game reason that there still being Kafers around for 2320AD players to shoot - only the Kafer homeworld got dosed with the bio-weapon.
So, the French Arm is still trashed, the Ylii worlds are still occupied, and the Kafer are still skulking around on and near their colony worlds.
Regards,
Bill
Last edited:
Don't hold anything back, Bill, tell us how you really feel...
Yes, a Pentapod bio-weapon was secretly released on the Kafer homeworld. Human leadership is still Core-based, and the Core populations would not have abided a Human-caused extinction of another intelligent species. The reasons for this include emotional scars leftover from the Twilight War, and somewhat alien (to Frontier mentalities) way of thinking, and an extensive memetic campaign waged by a few key foundations to keep Humanity from perpetrating a genocide.
The bio-weapon acted as an enzymatic inhibitor, and prevented Kafers from producing the adrenaline analogue that gave them their boosted intelligence. So while the weapon didn't kill, it drove Kafer society into chaos as the Human fleets were invading.
The Human military cabal that involved the Pentapods wanted a lethal bio-weapon, but the Pentapods, for their own reasons, had no desire to eliminate a species with such "promise" as the Kafers.
All Kafer colony worlds on the French side of Gamma Serpentis were eliminated in a more conventional fashion, through nuclear weapons and ortillery strikes.
As Gamma Serpentis is a bottleneck from Human space to Kafer space, the human fleets stopped there in 2313. By then, Humanity was over-extended and exhausted. The Kafer were seen as contained, and now the Human nations had an opportunity to regroup and rearm. The remaining Kafer worlds, with a fraction of the population of the homeworld, were not seen as so much of a threat.
Over in Ylli space, the Australian-American Volunteer Force, a "mercenary" outfit made up largely of military personnel on "personal leave," are using Ylli starship technology combined with Human weapons and tactics to take the fight to the Kafer-occupied Ylii worlds. Supply lines to Human space are tenuous at best, requiring a brown dwarf and a stutterwarp tug, so not a lot of material makes it through. Mostly warheads and laser arrays. While the AAVF has the tacit support of both national governments, there is no support for a full, formal war at this time.
In the meantime, Kafers are scattered on a half-dozen French Arm worlds, hiding in the wilderness and breeding like crazy. Due to contamination concerns, the bio-weapon (StarSeeker's Revenge) was never released on any Human-occupied worlds.
Kafer weapons are being found chambered for Human ammunition.
Bio-tech injectors with traces of Kafer pseudo-adrenaline have been found on Aurore.
And children born on Beowulf in the past 7 years are starting to act very strangely. (OK. I made that last one up right now...)
Yes, a Pentapod bio-weapon was secretly released on the Kafer homeworld. Human leadership is still Core-based, and the Core populations would not have abided a Human-caused extinction of another intelligent species. The reasons for this include emotional scars leftover from the Twilight War, and somewhat alien (to Frontier mentalities) way of thinking, and an extensive memetic campaign waged by a few key foundations to keep Humanity from perpetrating a genocide.
The bio-weapon acted as an enzymatic inhibitor, and prevented Kafers from producing the adrenaline analogue that gave them their boosted intelligence. So while the weapon didn't kill, it drove Kafer society into chaos as the Human fleets were invading.
The Human military cabal that involved the Pentapods wanted a lethal bio-weapon, but the Pentapods, for their own reasons, had no desire to eliminate a species with such "promise" as the Kafers.
All Kafer colony worlds on the French side of Gamma Serpentis were eliminated in a more conventional fashion, through nuclear weapons and ortillery strikes.
As Gamma Serpentis is a bottleneck from Human space to Kafer space, the human fleets stopped there in 2313. By then, Humanity was over-extended and exhausted. The Kafer were seen as contained, and now the Human nations had an opportunity to regroup and rearm. The remaining Kafer worlds, with a fraction of the population of the homeworld, were not seen as so much of a threat.
Over in Ylli space, the Australian-American Volunteer Force, a "mercenary" outfit made up largely of military personnel on "personal leave," are using Ylli starship technology combined with Human weapons and tactics to take the fight to the Kafer-occupied Ylii worlds. Supply lines to Human space are tenuous at best, requiring a brown dwarf and a stutterwarp tug, so not a lot of material makes it through. Mostly warheads and laser arrays. While the AAVF has the tacit support of both national governments, there is no support for a full, formal war at this time.
In the meantime, Kafers are scattered on a half-dozen French Arm worlds, hiding in the wilderness and breeding like crazy. Due to contamination concerns, the bio-weapon (StarSeeker's Revenge) was never released on any Human-occupied worlds.
Kafer weapons are being found chambered for Human ammunition.
Bio-tech injectors with traces of Kafer pseudo-adrenaline have been found on Aurore.
And children born on Beowulf in the past 7 years are starting to act very strangely. (OK. I made that last one up right now...)
Coming from someone whom in my mind will always, spirtually at least, 'own' 2320AD, please feel free to keep making that stuff up.
Really.
This:
Does NOT equal this:
Thanks for the synopsis of the 2nd Kafer War. I have the PDF, but had never gotten around to reading it all and soaking it in. Your post pointed out some things I hadn't noted before when skimming through the lengthy PDF. It made me appreciate the 2320 AD setting more (and a desire to jump in someone's campaign as a an American merc on the frontier fighting Kafers).
o:
Does NOT equal this:
Thanks for the synopsis of the 2nd Kafer War. I have the PDF, but had never gotten around to reading it all and soaking it in. Your post pointed out some things I hadn't noted before when skimming through the lengthy PDF. It made me appreciate the 2320 AD setting more (and a desire to jump in someone's campaign as a an American merc on the frontier fighting Kafers).
o:2313 was the "end" of the Kafer War, when StarSeeker's Revenge was unleashed on the Kafers. What if the Pentapods let something loose on Beowulf (or Beta Canum, or Niebelungen) at the same time? Prior to contact with Humans, the Pentapods has never had another intelligent to play with before. Perhaps it's time for Stage 3...
Sturn,
Actually it does. You just don't know the whole story yet.
First, the Pentapod weapon was deployed by fleets and personnel on the spot, who have fought the Kafer and witnessed Kafer atrocities firsthand, and who are only "controlled" by Core politicians months distant.
Second, these people [on the spot felt so strongly about ending the Kafer threat that many volunteered to become human vectors for the Pentapod bio-weapon. Humanity staged a phony "failed" invasion of the Kafer homeworld during which the human vectors allowed themselves to be captured and left to the tender mercies of the Kafer in order that the bio-weapon be transmitted to the enemy. That suggest a certain depth of feeling on the subject, don't you think?
Third, Colin's repeated excuses about humanity feeling squeamish over genocide are wide of the mark. The Kafer aren't killed by the bio-weapon, they're only rendered permanently "stupid", a condition in which the vast majority of their species has always existed.
So, we've a fleet at the end of a months' long communication line, a fleet whose personnel are willing to personally martyr themselves to deliver a bio-weapon, and a bio-weapon that does not result in genocide. Yet, 2320AD want us to believe that such a fleet and such people would bow to the nonsensical genocidal fears on a distant and uninformed Core population and not finish the job leaving another sentient species, the Ylii, still occupied, leaving the Kafer colonies still a threat to mankind, and leaving themselves on an unending defensive deployment.
Sure, pull the other one, it had bells on it.
That is what I referred to when I wrote "various completely implausible verging on bullsh*t reasons".
A more plausible in-game explanation for the partial deployment of the Pentapod bio-weapon is that the Pentapods only gave humanity a certain amount of it. The fleet could only take out the Kafer homeworld because there was only enough of the weapon to do that job.
And that's the real reason the fleet didn't finish the job against the Kafer and it's a meta-game reason.
RPG players need something to shoot at and the Kafers were and are made to order to shoot at. 2320AD's implausible in-game excuse for not finishing the Kafer "job" is actually a meta-game design feature. Mercs can fight Kafers on Ylii worlds, can still battle Kafer spacecraft, and still thwart Kafer threats to humanity. It's just that now the Kafer have been dialed back to something more "player scale".
I don't think having the Kafers survive is a flaw in 2320AD, quite the contrary actually. I do think that their survival could have been explained in a far more plausible manner however.
Regards,
Bill
You do have a couple of valid points, though I still think the Pentapod bio-weapon was/is a good idea. Were I to do 2320AD again (I won't) I would still use it, but with some altered ideas.
One of the issues was a deliver vector that could penetrate to the heart of a Kafer Chii. Though Kafers don't use bio-weapons, they are familiar with the idea of biological contamination. Using Humans as the delivery vector guaranteed that high-status Kafers would end up in the same room with them.
The Revenge didn't quite work as advertised, for which one can thank the Pentapods. The human admirals and generals wanted a mass die-off. The Pods, not so much. They tend to take a very long view.
One of the issues was a deliver vector that could penetrate to the heart of a Kafer Chii. Though Kafers don't use bio-weapons, they are familiar with the idea of biological contamination. Using Humans as the delivery vector guaranteed that high-status Kafers would end up in the same room with them.
The Revenge didn't quite work as advertised, for which one can thank the Pentapods. The human admirals and generals wanted a mass die-off. The Pods, not so much. They tend to take a very long view.
While I agree with Bill that the Kafer War came to a rather PC, and somewhat anti-climatic, conclusion, I agree with Colin's decision making in the grand scheme of keeping the game world playable. Wiping out the Kafers eliminates one of the most important and interesting alien species in 2300AD. But having the war continue indefinitely makes the entire French Arm a no go zone for anyone not wanting to play as soldiers. And having the Kafers win, while a cool idea, is a wholly different game.
I did have issues with other parts of 2320AD but overall it was a decent follow up. I just wish it had come out in its fully illustrated hard back form.
Benjamin
I did have issues with other parts of 2320AD but overall it was a decent follow up. I just wish it had come out in its fully illustrated hard back form.
Benjamin
Gents,
Let me make something very clear here: Maintaining a Kafer threat in 2320AD was no-brainer, rock solid, must-have, grand slam, how-else-can-I-say-excellent decision.
The setting needs the Kafers. Period.
My quibbles - and quibbles are all they are - only have to do in the manner in which the Kafer were preserved. That's all.
Ben51's observation that the Kafer War's conclusion was politically correct is spot on. It describes the issue very succinctly.
GDW hinted at a bio-weapon solution from almost the beginning. There are many references to how fast Kafer bodies rot after death and how that has impeded humanity's medical research of the Kafer. IIRC, there's even an adventure in the Aurora Sourcebook that involved capturing a live Kafer in order to allegedly learn it's language which quickly pits NPCs from the Life Foundation, again IIRC, against other NPCs with more shadowy goals.
It's obvious that GDW planned to "de-fang" the Kafer in some manner and that a bio-weapon would be the tool they used is readily apparent. Like Colin and his 2320AD team, I feel GDW would have left the Kafers around in numbers enough to bedevil the players while also not threatening humanity with extinction.
What snapped my belief suspenders is 2320AD's contention that humanity suddenly got squeamish and got squeamish after experiencing the death of entire human colonies and seeing Kafer bio-weapons unleashed on human colony worlds because of an event that happened 300 years in the past. Humanity seemingly can't inflict a Twilight War on a species that completely destroyed Hochbaden, on a species that attempted the same thing on several other human worlds, and on a species that has already used bio-weapons on humans and other Terran lifeforms?
That's not the humanity I know and that's why I called bullsh*t on 2320AD's contention early on.
I've no problem at all with where 2320AD ended up, only with how 2320AD got there.
Oh... one final note... BUY IT. Go right out and buy 2320AD. Buying it is another of those no-brainer, rock solid, must-have, grand slam, how-else-can-I-say-excellent decisions I was talking about earlier.
Regards,
Bill
Let me make something very clear here: Maintaining a Kafer threat in 2320AD was no-brainer, rock solid, must-have, grand slam, how-else-can-I-say-excellent decision.
The setting needs the Kafers. Period.
My quibbles - and quibbles are all they are - only have to do in the manner in which the Kafer were preserved. That's all.
Ben51's observation that the Kafer War's conclusion was politically correct is spot on. It describes the issue very succinctly.
GDW hinted at a bio-weapon solution from almost the beginning. There are many references to how fast Kafer bodies rot after death and how that has impeded humanity's medical research of the Kafer. IIRC, there's even an adventure in the Aurora Sourcebook that involved capturing a live Kafer in order to allegedly learn it's language which quickly pits NPCs from the Life Foundation, again IIRC, against other NPCs with more shadowy goals.
It's obvious that GDW planned to "de-fang" the Kafer in some manner and that a bio-weapon would be the tool they used is readily apparent. Like Colin and his 2320AD team, I feel GDW would have left the Kafers around in numbers enough to bedevil the players while also not threatening humanity with extinction.
What snapped my belief suspenders is 2320AD's contention that humanity suddenly got squeamish and got squeamish after experiencing the death of entire human colonies and seeing Kafer bio-weapons unleashed on human colony worlds because of an event that happened 300 years in the past. Humanity seemingly can't inflict a Twilight War on a species that completely destroyed Hochbaden, on a species that attempted the same thing on several other human worlds, and on a species that has already used bio-weapons on humans and other Terran lifeforms?
That's not the humanity I know and that's why I called bullsh*t on 2320AD's contention early on.
I've no problem at all with where 2320AD ended up, only with how 2320AD got there.
Oh... one final note... BUY IT. Go right out and buy 2320AD. Buying it is another of those no-brainer, rock solid, must-have, grand slam, how-else-can-I-say-excellent decisions I was talking about earlier.
Regards,
Bill
epicenter00
SOC-13
The bioweapon to retard Kafers has been around in thought for a while - and the whole idea of falling short was a bit lame. But that's not the part that bugged.
It was that whole scenario was the Tolkienesque / swords and sorcery-fantasy nature of the scenario.
In particular, it bugged me that humanity was totally unable to develop a bioweapon like this. It took the power of the elv...Pentapods to do it. Did humans suddenly become stupid? Okay, so pentapods are supposed to be "better" with biotech than humans. Now (to me) that opens up a can of worms. So what happens if the Pentapods get good with mechanical devices too? They're just better all around because humans somehow can't grok biotech. Or is it that the Pentapods somehow can't grok mechanical technology so humans always have "their" spot ... except we have to compete with the Ylii, Sung, and whomever else for that (oh right, Ylii have jewelry computers, while humans can only craft the very first iPod to the size of a cantaloupe cut in half - so I guess we're not good at anything). But the pentapods will always have the grace of the Valar on their side.
Even if you take that assumption that humans are somehow too crude and stupid to make biotech like the Pentapods, a bioweapon is easy to make comparatively. Yet, humans just totally drop the ball and we're just stuck going, "Heeyyy...we never thought of that." Even if you assume that most of the big science is in the Core where they'd be against genocide, the French Arm is supposed to be the most advanced and prosperous arm of the human sphere. Wouldn't some of the worlds along there have scientists and labs who could brew up such a weapon?
While important, I don't think Kafers are that interesting - that's just my opinion. In all of the 2300-verse products, Kafers have glaring, easily exploitable faults, often multiple ones. They're Orcs.
In 2300, you have their basic stupidity when not fighting, so shock/rapid-assault techniques just take them apart. Kafers don't wear armor and the Kafer Sourcebook doesn't describe them using any kind of advanced anti-intrusion sensors (and the "flavor" of the Kafer equipment list suggests they wouldn't have tech like that) so you can use silenced weapons and eliminate parts of a camp at a time without the Kafers ever getting bright. After they get smart, they become an army of Hannibal Lecters cojoined with Rambo and Chow Yun Fat from his Hong Kong action movie days, fortunately, all you have to do is run away for a while, then come back and finish the deal.
In Star Cruiser, Kafer ships and missiles are slow. Mind you speed was a flaw in Star Cruiser that applies to all navies in it, which ultimately made the game non-viable as ocne you figured out the "speed = win" rule, the game rapidly became boring. But GDW knew this and made the Kafers flawed. Even a few contacts with Kafers in that boardgame and you realize all you really need are a ship that flies faster than Kafer missiles and ships (easy) and you can just beat on them all day until you run out of your own missiles and have to retreat (mind you, with their high armor values, Alphas are rarely worth taking out completely - go for the easy to kill Epilsons and Betas, then the Deltas which carry the important Kafers, then if you have any missiles left, use them on the Alphas). If you were somehow able to build a Kennedy-class cruiser with capacity for 80 SIM-14s or Ritage-2s, you could kill Kafers all day long without the Kafers ever being able to do a thing in return.
It was that whole scenario was the Tolkienesque / swords and sorcery-fantasy nature of the scenario.
In particular, it bugged me that humanity was totally unable to develop a bioweapon like this. It took the power of the elv...Pentapods to do it. Did humans suddenly become stupid? Okay, so pentapods are supposed to be "better" with biotech than humans. Now (to me) that opens up a can of worms. So what happens if the Pentapods get good with mechanical devices too? They're just better all around because humans somehow can't grok biotech. Or is it that the Pentapods somehow can't grok mechanical technology so humans always have "their" spot ... except we have to compete with the Ylii, Sung, and whomever else for that (oh right, Ylii have jewelry computers, while humans can only craft the very first iPod to the size of a cantaloupe cut in half - so I guess we're not good at anything). But the pentapods will always have the grace of the Valar on their side.
Even if you take that assumption that humans are somehow too crude and stupid to make biotech like the Pentapods, a bioweapon is easy to make comparatively. Yet, humans just totally drop the ball and we're just stuck going, "Heeyyy...we never thought of that." Even if you assume that most of the big science is in the Core where they'd be against genocide, the French Arm is supposed to be the most advanced and prosperous arm of the human sphere. Wouldn't some of the worlds along there have scientists and labs who could brew up such a weapon?
While important, I don't think Kafers are that interesting - that's just my opinion. In all of the 2300-verse products, Kafers have glaring, easily exploitable faults, often multiple ones. They're Orcs.
In 2300, you have their basic stupidity when not fighting, so shock/rapid-assault techniques just take them apart. Kafers don't wear armor and the Kafer Sourcebook doesn't describe them using any kind of advanced anti-intrusion sensors (and the "flavor" of the Kafer equipment list suggests they wouldn't have tech like that) so you can use silenced weapons and eliminate parts of a camp at a time without the Kafers ever getting bright. After they get smart, they become an army of Hannibal Lecters cojoined with Rambo and Chow Yun Fat from his Hong Kong action movie days, fortunately, all you have to do is run away for a while, then come back and finish the deal.
In Star Cruiser, Kafer ships and missiles are slow. Mind you speed was a flaw in Star Cruiser that applies to all navies in it, which ultimately made the game non-viable as ocne you figured out the "speed = win" rule, the game rapidly became boring. But GDW knew this and made the Kafers flawed. Even a few contacts with Kafers in that boardgame and you realize all you really need are a ship that flies faster than Kafer missiles and ships (easy) and you can just beat on them all day until you run out of your own missiles and have to retreat (mind you, with their high armor values, Alphas are rarely worth taking out completely - go for the easy to kill Epilsons and Betas, then the Deltas which carry the important Kafers, then if you have any missiles left, use them on the Alphas). If you were somehow able to build a Kennedy-class cruiser with capacity for 80 SIM-14s or Ritage-2s, you could kill Kafers all day long without the Kafers ever being able to do a thing in return.
@epicenter00 - I can't really find any fault in your argument regarding the Kafers. They are flawed "orcs in space" because if they weren't they would cut through humanity like a det-laser perforating ply-wood. (Of course that only applies to 2300ADs version of the future.) I found them to be one of the most interesting alien races ever because they followed no stereo-type. They weren't man cats, man dogs or man bugs. The way they handled intelligence was novel and their retro-tech was kinda neat.
[That being said, I just had a laugh out loud moment thing of how Kafers ,or any of the alien races in 2300AD, would fare against a humanity with the technology from SJGames' Transhuman Space as well as stutterwarp. Ouch.]
I also like how they had flaws because in the real world evolution is like that. An animal species survives not because it is perfect but because it is good enough. Kafers were good enough to survive, expand and defeat the Ylii. Yet once the initial shock of the Invasion is over Humanity would prove to be far more adaptable and resilient. Humanity would be the Kafers' Northern Snakehead. Unfortunately in evolution not all species are equal.
Also, I too disliked the way the Pentapods are portrayed. I mean come on in the fifty or so years since first contact Pentapods are now far better at manipulating Terran DNA than human scientists? Not likely. I can see a joint program to develop the Kafer dumb-virus, but making Pentapods automatic experts in all genetic engineering is like saying that just because you can speak one language, you can now speak them all.
Benjamin
[That being said, I just had a laugh out loud moment thing of how Kafers ,or any of the alien races in 2300AD, would fare against a humanity with the technology from SJGames' Transhuman Space as well as stutterwarp. Ouch.]
I also like how they had flaws because in the real world evolution is like that. An animal species survives not because it is perfect but because it is good enough. Kafers were good enough to survive, expand and defeat the Ylii. Yet once the initial shock of the Invasion is over Humanity would prove to be far more adaptable and resilient. Humanity would be the Kafers' Northern Snakehead. Unfortunately in evolution not all species are equal.
Also, I too disliked the way the Pentapods are portrayed. I mean come on in the fifty or so years since first contact Pentapods are now far better at manipulating Terran DNA than human scientists? Not likely. I can see a joint program to develop the Kafer dumb-virus, but making Pentapods automatic experts in all genetic engineering is like saying that just because you can speak one language, you can now speak them all.
Benjamin
I've never said the Pentapods were better at manipulating human DNA. As it turns out, Humans are very good at it. They just don't anymore (DNAM have been around for over 100 years, and the best they could come up with is the King Mod?), due to laws and active prejudices. At least, that's the explanation I came up with.
The Pentapods approached Humanity, not the other way around (I think... it's been awhile).
The Pentapods lost a god to a Kafer raid, and this upset the entire species, to put it mildly. At the same time, an intelligent species is not something to be squandered.
The Pentapods approached Humanity, not the other way around (I think... it's been awhile).
The Pentapods lost a god to a Kafer raid, and this upset the entire species, to put it mildly. At the same time, an intelligent species is not something to be squandered.
@ Colin - I was referring largely to the situation in the original 2300AD and the Challenge Magazine articles. I understand that you had to work within the background as it was originally presented, with only minor changes to correct a few glaring canon discrepancies and just plain silliness. And, except for your coverage of Earth society, I think you did a great job. Don't get me wrong, I very much like 2320.
Benjamin
Benjamin
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