General Armor and Weapons As Mustering Out Benefits

[Captain_Ahab]

It seems to me that the mustering out with a weapon doesn't mean the service gave it to you. Instead you picked it up while you were in service from other sources; a trophy weapon, et al, like a US ww2 vet bringing back a m98k or luger. Probably not all that useful unless you bring back cases of ammo, too, which is harder, especially if it is from a different world

 

[Condottiere]

Arisaka rifles had a somewhat dubious reputation, since available ammunition was somewhat questionable, and a lot of late war production was picked up as trophies.

 

[kilemall]

It seems to me that the mustering out with a weapon doesn't mean the service gave it to you. Instead you picked it up while you were in service from other sources; a trophy weapon, et al, like a US ww2 vet bringing back a m98k or luger. Probably not all that useful unless you bring back cases of ammo, too, which is harder, especially if it is from a different world

I like this, part of the backstory/life path story.

 

[kilemall]

This is exactly the wrong approach that people take to this. It's not really an issue about availability so much as an issue about why folks are toey about them in the first place. Gauss rifles may or may not be legal to own in any given world but as of the Published 1105 setting they've been in production for something like a milennium, if not back into pre-Cleon days of the Sylean Federation. They are going to be on the grey market in quantity. There are even legitimate arms dealership companies like Interstellarms that get a mention in the Traveller source material.

They could be illegal locally, perhaps requiring some work to obtain, but the Imperium itself has no policy on trafficking anything smaller than WMDs and has a policy of turning a blind eye to local brushfire wars. Just within the grey market within Spinward marches one would expect to see many millions of Imperial or extra-Imperial manufacture (Zhodani, Sword World, Darrian, Aslan, Vargr, independent extra-Imperial polities) from several frontier wars and hundreds or thousands of local conflicts over the past centuries.

Under the RAW it's mass-murder on a stick. How is this possibly not the weapon of choice for low-rent gangland drive-by shootings or the shenanigans of whatever makes up the local equivalent of the mob or cartels?

That's a rhetorical question - the answer is 'of course it is'. I don't have an issue with Gauss Rifles per se, but the CT and Striker RAW have them crazy overpowered. The correct solution is not to make up contrived explanations about how parties at your table can't get hold of them because reasons. If you're going to do that they may as well not exist in the first place (which is also a legitimate approach, btw). The correct solution is to nerf them so they don't overbalance party-level fire combat scenarios. This is really a minor piece of house ruling to fix on a game that's famous for house ruling, and yet for some reason people seem unwilling to do it. I don't really understand why - maybe it's a canon thing.

Reread this, and I can say I don’t drop their firepower cause high tech is supposed to be better. LL and access and logistics support will do for me.

 

[Condottiere]

Gauss weapon systems are technological level twelve, and definitely military firearms.

In most jurisdictions, functional examples, at a minimum, registered and licensed, even if grandfathered.

 

[whartung]

Gauss weapon systems are technological level twelve, and definitely military firearms.

I would disagree. There's nothing particularly "military" about a gauss rifle, outside of having automatic fire. And you can say that about many rifles. "Gauss" doesn't necessarily bring anything "military" to the table outside of, potentially, cost. But costs come down. TL-12 is 100's of years old tech. A semi-auto gauss rifle should be fine for the civilian market.

 

[Condottiere]

1. In my opinion, the cut off point are assault rifles.

2. Still a gray area, since the carbine variant is a superior submachinegun, and by the Nineteen Seventies viewpoint, bannable.

3. However, I don't see them as a real threat to law enforcement (in Traveller), so tolerable, at least in the frontier regions.

4. Anti materiel rifle has a range of one klick, five dice of damage, armour piercing five.

5. Probably categorized as a destructive weapon.

6. Gauss sniper rifle one klick range, five dice of damage, armour piercing six.

7. Looks very much a thing to licence and register.

8. Default gauss is very much militarized, six hundred metres range, four dice of damage, magazine capacity eighty, armour piercing five, automatic three.

9, You'd have to heavily castrate it to make a civilian version.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

The wonder of the Imperium is that, outside local jurisdiction, the imperium intermittently enforces law-level 2.

Inside local jurisdiction, there are definite limits for legal weapons...unless they are held as part of an accepted job. Local police or soldiery (or authorised non-state equivalents) may well carry arms above local law levels. As may terrorists, criminals and the like - but with commensurate concealment issues.

n.b. only 1 in 8 of the worlds in the spinward marches have a law level of 5 or less.
1/3rd of those are level 2 or less.

 

[infojunky]

Gauss weapon systems are technological level twelve, and definitely military firearms.

Depends, a semi-automatic with a limited magazine capacity is not necessarily a "Military" weapon.

It will probably not use the same ammo either.

In most jurisdictions, functional examples, at a minimum, registered and licensed, even if grandfathered.

On civilized worlds at least.

 

[Condottiere]

I tend to take the cynical view, that civilian use wouldn't threaten law enforcement officers, or at least, their special unit teams.

The way law levels are tiered:

2. Energy/laser; combat armour

3. Military; flak armour, debatable

4. Light assault, presumably destructive weapons; submachineguns, presumably burst and full automatic; cloth armour, debatable

5. Concealed carry; mesh armour, I find excessive, considering butchers use chainmail gloves

6. Except shotguns and stunners

7. Shotguns

There is a difference between being allowed to own a firearm, and being allowed to do so, but requiring a permit, which allow you to own one in a higher law level.

My opinion is that assault rifles are viewed as quaint but useful, much as a Winchester would be today. Advanced combat rifles are at best paramilitary, and you'd need to have really large wild hogs the size of elephants, to justify a gauss rifle.

The fact that some mercenary units use assault rifles are primarily to do with cost issues, secondarily maybe with maintenance.

I tend to have the view that the intermediate rifle bullet is standardized and available throughout the Solomani Sphere, and weapon systems, civilian or otherwise, are built around that standard.

 

[Sir Brad]

I've got a number of relatives that are Vietnam Vets, more than one have said they jumped on a chopper in the middle of a patrol ended up on a tarmac looking at a QANTAS Jumbo, boarded the plane in full kit in Saigon, they filled out their mustering out paperwork fully pissed on the flight back, when they landed some time after midnight they where supposed to hand in their Weapons Ammo and such when they got home. the Army took over hangers at the international airport where you where turn in your papers, trade your Script for Aussie cash, pick up your last pay, change in to Civies and not forget to turn in that hardware and walk off in to the predawn a Civilian

Guys just walked off with their SLR's, M16's, M79's, Grenades, M60's even LAW rockets and all the stuff they took off of Charlie.

 

[mike wightman]

Here in the UK there are moves afoot to ban the military giving commemorative FS daggers to retirees.

This is due to the sad case of a mentally unstable vet killing his next door neighbor with his dagger - the fact he could have picked up any of the half dozen kitchen knives which are actually responsible for the vast majority of knife crime in this country is immaterial.

The same powers that be look like they are going to "tighten" our already draconic firearm laws. Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with mass shootings, or any taking of life illegally, but:
criminals can more easily get guns today than at any time in the past half century or so - handguns, smgs, AR15s, AKs - no problem on the black market (wonder how they are getting into the country - not, the how is very easy to explain)
handgun related incidents are now at a higher level then they were before the ban
the bill of rights 1689 allows for bearing of arms for self defence, although this has been removed by Laws passed through parliament so that only criminals can now arm themselves - and lots do.

 

[Condottiere]

Utility, accessibility, lethality, liability.

You could kill a person with a butter knife, but a stiletto is much more efficient. I remember when katanas were favoured for brawling, though throwing stars and nunchuks have a somewhat limited utility.

And something Heinlein said and what I had read once in a Marvel comic (possibly two): responsibility and power.

 

[Jame]

IMTU a character can pick up what's essentially higher tech mesh and cloth armor, which is lighter and less obviously armor. And the character is essentially walking away with a few of their fatigues uniforms; a few sets of those at TL8+ would probably cost the book price.
As for weapons, well, I modified the Law Level system a bit, so most characters might be able to walk off with up to a laser pistol.
Of course, as someone said, the Imperium might have them be available as militia or a troubleshooter in exchange for something heavier...

 

[atpollard]

Let me be “that guy” and take a COMPLETELY different view of this whole thing.


Rather than view Traveller and the 3rd Imperium (and mustering out with weapons and armor) like 21st Century Western Europe with some of the tightest gun control on the planet (and a goal of protecting a vulnerable local police force from potential abuse by former soldiers suffering PTSD) …

What if there was a REAL Nobility with real interstellar power and these soldiers mustering out were a valuable (and loyal) resource that either the Noblemen, Officers or Military Intelligence Branch might wish to maintain contact with … perhaps officially, perhaps semi-officially, perhaps unofficially. Would it be a TERRIBLE thing if an especially loyal Sergeant left the service of an appreciative LORD with a FGMP as a “thank you”? Would that Sergeant be inclined towards loyalty and support of the services and the Imperium even in their civilian life?

Let’s go one step further and assume that this Sergeant travels to some frontier world where the local LEO encounters some Vargr raiders. As the LEO armed with ACRs faces off against Gauss armed Vargr Mercs, might that Sergeant with a FGMP come in handy?

… but what if he (fill in the blank).

Yes, indeed. What if! What if the sergeant betrays the trust that an Imperial Baron has placed in an NCO under his command? What if a former hero shames his unit of the Imperial Marines? SOMEONE WILL WANT TO DO SOMETHING! Someone will want answers.

… that is the stuff that adventures are born from.

On the other hand, every day that Sergeant has a decision to make about how HE will repay the trust given to him. Quid pro quo. Does anyone remember the scene from Firefly when the Preacher made contact with the Navy? Sometimes it can be GOOD to know people and have a SEH in your service record.

[EDIT] Post edited to redact modern reference and self reported. While I intended NOTHING political in the statement, but was merely contrasting MODERN SOCIETY to a HISTORIC FEUDAL SOCIETY with respect to a "knight" leaving service, it could be read as a rules violation ... and the Rules apply to Moderators as well as everyone else.

Consider this an official reminder to avoid current politics in our discussions.

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, you can have anything in your starship's armoury, with the exception of nukes and other weapons of mass destruction.

If your former employer gifts you a fusion gun, man portable, that's up to him, especially if he's THE LAW in his bailiwick; probably also comes with a weapon permit, that's valid where his writ runs.

Currently, I think the limitation is more starbux value of the equipment.

For myself, what's valuable is the stuff that's hard to get.

 

[mike wightman]

It could also be the result of the 57th Century Bill of Rights granting every citizen the right to bear arms for personal defence.

 

[Condottiere]

Combined with genetic lock.

 

[Sir Brad]

I think it's more of a Yeomanry thing, you get a Weapon and it comes with strings attached but also perks, you are a Yeoman of the Realm and subject to recall to service "For the Duration" by "Imperial Authorities" until you hit retirement age.

 

[whartung]

Would it be a TERRIBLE thing if an especially loyal Sergeant left the service of an appreciative LORD with a FGMP as a “thank you”? Would that Sergeant be inclined towards loyalty and support of the services and the Imperium even in their civilian life?

But if the Lord needed their services again, it should be straight forward to equip them when they returned to service, however brief.

"We need you for the weekend, here's your gun and badge, hold up your right hand" kind of thing.

And, specifically regarding something like the FGMP, the FGMP is not what I would call a "precision device". It's an anti-armor weapon, and a messy one at that. Granted, the troops are running around in armor - that's the point, but by the same notion, since troops are running around in armor, the FGMP is, sort of, "safe" to use as the armor can readily deflect the splash damage from an FGMP.

Not so much the sofa in the living room were one to turn one of these on a random intruder. Or the nearby tree or park bench, much less nearby passers-by if you were to punch a bolt or two into a local sedan.

Over penetration, and munition choice are a steady source of discussion in home self defense circles. If folks think they're wary of the impact on their neighbors due to a rogue 9mm from a pistol, I'd hate to think of the discussion around mitigating an FGMP.