Ok, on cargo and pallets... In 15mm

[infojunky]

Ok, in other forums we have gone round and round about cargo containers. Well this is related. Consider Unit Load Devices and Master Pallets used in Air Cargo. A Master pallet, which is a pallet used in military cargo movement is around 2 by 3 meters and scan support 4.5 tonnes. While Unit Load Devices are generally around 1.5 x 1.5 x up to 3 meters in size (Note there several specifications so YMMV).

On to the 15mm portion of this post, 15mm is generally 1/100th scale for vehicles and the like, thus a quick and dirty Master Pallet is a thin 20 by 30mm base with cargo on top. (Note a 20 by 20 works as well) see attached photos.

Still figuring out how to do ULDs, and related things like ForkBots. And Grav Pallet Jacks.

 

[Ekofisk]

Minifigs makes a 2.5 ton forklift in 10mm scale here.

Ever consider modifying a Matchbox? The plastic knockoffs are a bit large for 15mm but might pass as a heavy duty cargo lifter with some work.

 

[kilemall]

Keep in mind that 10mm is effectively N scale, so any figures buildings and vehicles for those trains also work.

That means a lot of containers and container handling equipment. Maybe gluing lifters in place of wheels at the grav TL.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Ok, in other forums we have gone round and round about cargo containers. Well this is related. Consider Unit Load Devices and Master Pallets used in Air Cargo. A Master pallet, which is a pallet used in military cargo movement is around 2 by 3 meters and scan support 4.5 tonnes. While Unit Load Devices are generally around 1.5 x 1.5 x up to 3 meters in size (Note there several specifications so YMMV).

On to the 15mm portion of this post, 15mm is generally 1/100th scale for vehicles and the like, thus a quick and dirty Master Pallet is a thin 20 by 30mm base with cargo on top. (Note a 20 by 20 works as well) see attached photos.

Still figuring out how to do ULDs, and related things like ForkBots. And Grav Pallet Jacks.

Trilaterum has a Grav Lifter

Grav Lifters

2 x grav lifters and 2 x grav sleds each sled is 25mm x 40mm x 30mm 3d printed supplied unpainted

www.trilaterum.com

2 x grav lifters and 2 x grav sleds

each sled is 25mm x 40mm x 30mm

3d printed supplied unpainted

 

[infojunky]

Keep in mind that 10mm is effectively N scale, so any figures buildings and vehicles for those trains also work.

Actually, HO is a better fit to 15mm than N scale. But your point is taken.

 

[kilemall]

Actually, HO is a better fit to 15mm than N scale. But your point is taken.

15mm is 1:100 right? US HO is 1:87, functionally close but a little largish.

Many more figures and vehicles and buildings including military gear and troops, at a cost of space if doing a planetary scene.

 

[whartung]

15mm is 1:100 right? US HO is 1:87, functionally close but a little largish.

But closer than N is to 1:100. 1:87 to 1:100 vs 1:160 to 1:100.

 

[kilemall]

But closer than N is to 1:100. 1:87 to 1:100 vs 1:160 to 1:100.

Ok, so those that want N do 10mm and HO do 15mm. This isn’t hard.

Scale Guide

Scale is everything to the wargamer! Here's a handy guide to help you decide which scale is most appropriate for you. The scale is also listed on the product page for each of our products to help you. Scale Guide, 6mm is equivalent to 1:285 10mm is equivalent to 1:160, Japanese & American 'N'...

www.magistermilitum.com

 

[Vargr Breath]

15mm minis are not always the same 15mm minis. The older 15mm minis are smaller than the newer ones. Take a look at the old Lazerburn,, Rafm (Citadel), and Martian Metals minis and they are smaller than the newer ones from Ground Zero Games, Khurasan, Dark Star and others. It's not so bad you can't mix them it's just the newer ones are going to be a little taller. That works good sometimes, the RAFM Vargr and Droyne look just about the right size when used with the Humans of the newer minis. So, I guess it would be the same when using equipment and buildings some scales are going to be closer than others.

 

[infojunky]

Keep in mind that 10mm is effectively N scale, so any figures buildings and vehicles for those trains also work.

Actually, HO is a better fit to 15mm than N scale. But your point is taken.

15mm is 1:100 right? US HO is 1:87, functionally close but a little largish.

Many more figures and vehicles and buildings including military gear and troops, at a cost of space if doing a planetary scene.

Visually a little large is better than a little small... In General...

I probably should post pictures...

 

[infojunky]

15mm minis are not always the same 15mm minis. The older 15mm minis are smaller than the newer ones. Take a look at the old Lazerburn,, Rafm (Citadel), and Martian Metals minis and they are smaller than the newer ones from Ground Zero Games, Khurasan, Dark Star and others. It's not so bad you can't mix them it's just the newer ones are going to be a little taller. That works good sometimes, the RAFM Vargr and Droyne look just about the right size when used with the Humans of the newer minis. So, I guess it would be the same when using equipment and buildings some scales are going to be closer than others.

Generally specking the RAFM/Citadel and GZGs figures form the core standard. And there outliers, the PeterPig figures are clearly smaller. But mostly they generally work. YMMV even within one producer's line.

Note commonly Automotive sized vehicle Miniatures end up being around a 25mm ish wide and 50mm ish long, which trends to be on the large size. While the Nominal Scale is 1/100th, the real test is what works visually.

 

[Vargr Breath]

IAF175 Shangpin Cargo Carrier (Choose Wheeled or Tracked Variants)

This type of Shangpin moves goods and other materials which the Xin have sold in their business deals. This code comes in two different variants these being either one tracked or one wheeled. Make your choice. A 15mm scale kit made of high quality grey tone resin with a total of three pieces...

www.alternative-armies.com

 

[infojunky]

IAF175 Shangpin Cargo Carrier (Choose Wheeled or Tracked Variants)

This type of Shangpin moves goods and other materials which the Xin have sold in their business deals. This code comes in two different variants these being either one tracked or one wheeled. Make your choice. A 15mm scale kit made of high quality grey tone resin with a total of three pieces...

www.alternative-armies.com

Yah, the Alternative armies vehicles are defiantly one the wide side, kinda. Meaning the older Laserburn ones are smaller, sometimes.

One of these days I need to do a bunch of comparison shots.... Whee! Yet. another project.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Would these work as ULDs

V15-ACC20 - Ground Zero Games

Manufacturer of fine scale models for wargaming and collecting

shop.groundzerogames.co.uk

V15-ACC21 - Ground Zero Games

Manufacturer of fine scale models for wargaming and collecting

shop.groundzerogames.co.uk

or are you looking for the same shape as the ones in use today?

 

[infojunky]

Would these work as ULDs

V15-ACC20 - Ground Zero Games

Manufacturer of fine scale models for wargaming and collecting

shop.groundzerogames.co.uk

V15-ACC21 - Ground Zero Games

Manufacturer of fine scale models for wargaming and collecting

shop.groundzerogames.co.uk

or are you looking for the same shape as the ones in use today?

Oh, great, make me go dig through my mountain of lead....

Though honestly they probably work as well....

Sidenote, this thread got started with giving form to drop in loads... Now I have to go size those containers to that spec.

 

[Ekofisk]

If you're not averse to laser cut, Iliada games has some 12 and 15mm scifi scenics.

 

[infojunky]

If you're not averse to laser cut, Iliada games has some 12 and 15mm scifi scenics.

Sad News there, He is having some mobility issues, and is shutting down the laser cutting side of his operations soon.

I just dropped a large-ish order because of that.

 

[spank]

I'm a little late to the party here, but that won't stop me from throwing in my 2¢.
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If Traveller assumes 1.5 m squares represented by a 15mm grid then 1:100 is a good fit, but when it comes to scales there is a little sillyness.
The real sticking point is that most miniatures assume assume a 6' (or so) man, while most games assume a 5' (or so) game grid. Even Traveller, which uses 1.5 meter {59 in, or 4.91 feet} squares. So the 15mm tall miniature man is at closer to 1:120, while the game grid is at 1:100.
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Fortunately we live in the modern age of 3D printing and STL files, so you can scale your terrain and miniatures as suits you. For 1:100 or a 1.5m game grid at 15mm or .59" you can snag any number of miniatures and terrain and scale them to fit. A 6' man would be 18.28 mm tall at this height. 3D slicing software lets you scale STL files either by percent, or to a specific dimension. So if you grab some shipping container files from somewhere you can scale them to be ~60 mm or 120mm long depending on if it's a 20 or 40 foot container.
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The real issue is that real world, interalmodal shipping containers don't conform exactly to Traveller's 1.5m x 1.5m x 3.0m standard grid. the length is good, 6.058m or 12.192m the width is odd at 2.438m and the standard height is either off, at 2.59m or close at 2.89m. Out of the 3 dimensions width is the real problem child. Stretching a standard 20' container file 20% in width and 10% in height gives a 2.9m x 2.9m X 6m cube, which fits nicely with Traveller's grid, and gives a nice 4 dTon unit of cargo.

The 15mm miniature would be a 5ft man, and the 18mm miniature would be a 5'10 man.

 

[TamsinP]

I'm a little late to the party here, but that won't stop me from throwing in my 2¢.
.
If Traveller assumes 1.5 m squares represented by a 15mm grid then 1:100 is a good fit, but when it comes to scales there is a little sillyness.
The real sticking point is that most miniatures assume assume a 6' (or so) man, while most games assume a 5' (or so) game grid. Even Traveller, which uses 1.5 meter {59 in, or 4.91 feet} squares. So the 15mm tall miniature man is at closer to 1:120, while the game grid is at 1:100.
.
Fortunately we live in the modern age of 3D printing and STL files, so you can scale your terrain and miniatures as suits you. For 1:100 or a 1.5m game grid at 15mm or .59" you can snag any number of miniatures and terrain and scale them to fit. A 6' man would be 18.28 mm tall at this height. 3D slicing software lets you scale STL files either by percent, or to a specific dimension. So if you grab some shipping container files from somewhere you can scale them to be ~60 mm or 120mm long depending on if it's a 20 or 40 foot container.
.
The real issue is that real world, interalmodal shipping containers don't conform exactly to Traveller's 1.5m x 1.5m x 3.0m standard grid. the length is good, 6.058m or 12.192m the width is odd at 2.438m and the standard height is either off, at 2.59m or close at 2.89m. Out of the 3 dimensions width is the real problem child. Stretching a standard 20' container file 20% in width and 10% in height gives a 2.9m x 2.9m X 6m cube, which fits nicely with Traveller's grid, and gives a nice 4 dTon unit of cargo.

The 15mm miniature would be a 5ft man, and the 18mm miniature would be a 5'10 man.

The thing is that most modern "15mm" figures are actually 1:100 scale (6' human is 18mm tall); it's the older ranges (the '80s Traveller miniatures, early GZG ranges, etc) are closer to 1:120 scale (6' human is 15mm tall). I seem to recall that the original grids for use with 15mm figures were 1.5m = 0.5" (roughly 1:120).

If using the taller modern "15mm" (1:100 scale) figures, you'd want to be using a 15mm grid.

 

[spank]

The thing is that most modern "15mm" figures are actually 1:100 scale (6' human is 18mm tall); it's the older ranges (the '80s Traveller miniatures, early GZG ranges, etc) are closer to 1:120 scale (6' human is 15mm tall). I seem to recall that the original grids for use with 15mm figures were 1.5m = 0.5" (roughly 1:120).

If using the taller modern "15mm" (1:100 scale) figures, you'd want to be using a 15mm grid.

There are a few odd things about how figures are measured, high among them is the idea that they should be measured from the center of the eye. The reason I've often heard given is that you can't measure to the top of the head if they've got a hat. This leads to the odd situation where a "15 mm" miniature is 16.5 to 17 mm tall.
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The other thing about miniatures is they don't correspond exactly to a scale. Just because a figure is 15mm tall it isn't automatically 1:100 or 1:120, old school D&D used 15mm minis for halflings, and 40mm miniatures for giants, while using a 25.7mm grid. The miniature's size is often telegraphed by it's base. A 15mm mini on a 1" base is a halfling, a 15mm mini on a 1/2" base is a 6' man.
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Snapshot used just such a conceit, it used a 1/2" grid for 1.5 meters, and it used 15 mm miniatures on a 1/2" base. which worked out to ~1:120.
That worked well, however 15 mm miniatures didn't stay 15mm tall. Scale creep, "heroic scale" miniatures, and "eye height" measuring all palyed a part, so now "15 mm" miniatures are infact 18mm.
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Which is a long winded way of saying pretty much the same thing you said.
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I think ultimately it boils down to what sized grid are you using? 1/2" squares equals 1:120 and any mini from 13 mm to 16mm will work.
5/8" or 15mm squares equals ~1:100, so any mini from 16 mm to 19 mm would be suitable. {leaving aside all that "eye height" sillyness}
Using 1/2" squares you'd want a 24mm X 24mm X 49 mm shipping container using a 15mm grid you'd want a 29mm X 29mm X 59mm container.