15MB pdf seems a bit small for a book of that page count + illustrations. But, even at something like ~60MB, it is cheaper (for the bandwidth) than mailing a CD...
Post here if you got your T5 book.
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15MB pdf seems a bit small for a book of that page count + illustrations. But, even at something like ~60MB, it is cheaper (for the bandwidth) than mailing a CD...
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lordmalachdrim
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It does but that is the size of the file according to Mark on the kickstarter.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/traveller5/traveller-5th-edition/posts/423147#comments
6th comment down.
OMG! Sounds like Mark has been out of loop, interwebtubes wise, for >decade.
Seriously?
Y'all think that emailing 2000 individual PDFs is "free"?
Hand's up! Who wants to send 2000 PDFs via Outlook? One by one?
Also notice that save for the "Screen Saver Link" (which I have assume has been "delivered" already), every single reward is a physical item.
So, even if you did get a PDF email, he STILL has to stuff a box and mail it to you.
"Well we can just download it!"
Sure, that will speed up the process. Notify you all, make you register, have you set up passwords, then let you painlessly download the product. Save for email changes, password recovery, "my plugins don't work", "I suck at the web plz help" emails. Nothing could go wrong there.
He does that with all his other PDFs, right? Oh, wait, no, he doesn't. He doesn't have that infrastructure set up. It's not something you can quickly set up. Especially Marc. Whatever Marc's strengths are, it's certainly not Internet driven infrastructure. I've seen his websites.
Maybe he could work with Drive Thru RPG to do something? Maybe not. Maybe DTRPG isn't set up to sell things to folks that haven't registered. Maybe DTRPG doesn't want to deal with a the one off headache to handle all of the folks who "suck at the web" for a product they don't sell to people who aren't registered.
And, oh, wait, in the end, he STILL has to stuff something into a box and send it to every one. Wow! Gee, that sounds like what I would call "extra work and extra money".
Perhaps, instead, he's driving to get all of the packages set up at once. Then maybe make a call to UPS "Hi, I'd like to send 2000 packages, can you send some trucks please?". Then everyone gets their stuff at the same time, maybe? Everyone can talk about it at the same time. Look at the whining happening now about not receiving product, imagine what it would be like if the packages were trickling out? "Franky got his!! Where's mine!?!?"
Or, again, perhaps he's down on a beach freebasing with McAfee in Belize.
Y'all think that emailing 2000 individual PDFs is "free"?
Hand's up! Who wants to send 2000 PDFs via Outlook? One by one?
Also notice that save for the "Screen Saver Link" (which I have assume has been "delivered" already), every single reward is a physical item.
So, even if you did get a PDF email, he STILL has to stuff a box and mail it to you.
"Well we can just download it!"
Sure, that will speed up the process. Notify you all, make you register, have you set up passwords, then let you painlessly download the product. Save for email changes, password recovery, "my plugins don't work", "I suck at the web plz help" emails. Nothing could go wrong there.
He does that with all his other PDFs, right? Oh, wait, no, he doesn't. He doesn't have that infrastructure set up. It's not something you can quickly set up. Especially Marc. Whatever Marc's strengths are, it's certainly not Internet driven infrastructure. I've seen his websites.
Maybe he could work with Drive Thru RPG to do something? Maybe not. Maybe DTRPG isn't set up to sell things to folks that haven't registered. Maybe DTRPG doesn't want to deal with a the one off headache to handle all of the folks who "suck at the web" for a product they don't sell to people who aren't registered.
And, oh, wait, in the end, he STILL has to stuff something into a box and send it to every one. Wow! Gee, that sounds like what I would call "extra work and extra money".
Perhaps, instead, he's driving to get all of the packages set up at once. Then maybe make a call to UPS "Hi, I'd like to send 2000 packages, can you send some trucks please?". Then everyone gets their stuff at the same time, maybe? Everyone can talk about it at the same time. Look at the whining happening now about not receiving product, imagine what it would be like if the packages were trickling out? "Franky got his!! Where's mine!?!?"
Or, again, perhaps he's down on a beach freebasing with McAfee in Belize.
And I would be perfectly happy to forgo the TAS cards if it got the book and CD here 2 weeks earlier. The fluff is nice, but the end product is the real gem here. I would love to kickoff my campaign in a timely fashion. Our group has about half their character concepts finished and are now waiting on rules. I'm not overly irritated, but I completely understand everyone's frustration as I share some of that sentiment. Delays happen, but they can be mitigated, or at least communicated in a better and more timely manner. The lack of the latter only adds to the frustration.
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lordmalachdrim
Guest
@whartung: He already did the Drivethru set up for the wallpapers that were made available for those who backed the kickstarter. So everyone (or nearly everyone) would have a drivethru account set up.
There are also very elegant ways to AUTOMATICALLY produce unique links to downloads and send the link by e-mail.
There is also http://www.bits-and-mortar.com/how-do-i-join/
Lets be honest, he's either not very technical or he has another reason for avoiding doing this. Practicality isn't it.
I wish the sycophant would stop apologising for this. It cost me a lot of money for this product and the reasons for me not having it just seem rather incompetent.
Additionally the 15mb quote for the PDF is very worrying. Is this not a real PDF of the book? Has he pulled all the illustrations? It all seems rather suspect to be honest. I'd ask for clarity, but he also seems incapable of speaking out or responding to people. Again adding to the suspicion.
I am very tempted to reverse my charge and wait to see if people get their goods, rather than risk this never appearing as advertised.
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lordmalachdrim
Guest
The file size doesn't concern me that much since the 400 page full color Player's Handbook for Kenzer & Co's HackMaster is only 45 megs.
Seriously?
You think that emailing 2000 individual PDF's costs as much as mailing 2,000 individual CD's? REALLY???? :file_21:
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Is that what he said? No. Answer his question.
T5 I'm patient
Paranoia is another game...this is Traveller. :rofl:
And Welcome to anyone new to COTI!
The Versions:
I think deciding to follow up with the cliffs at a later date and deciding a few things might get shipped later is an adjustment to the scheduling effort so we get the product without delaying more and more...this is not just a Kickstarter scratch built project throwing things over the fence.
I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_W._Miller
Paranoia is another game...this is Traveller. :rofl:
And Welcome to anyone new to COTI!
The Versions:
- CT was the original effort to produce a ruleset. It is now very dated.
- MT was GDW's effort led by Marc to update the ruleset but it was plagued by short deadlines, economic tough times (people we're buying computer games).
- TNE was GDW's effort to revitalize Traveller without Marc but GDW went under.
- T4 was the effort to restart Traveller but had too many hands involved and still tough budget production issues.
- T20 was outsourced as Hunters version.
- Gurps was outsourced Loren went to do his version.
- Mongoose is outsourced MJDs version.
I think deciding to follow up with the cliffs at a later date and deciding a few things might get shipped later is an adjustment to the scheduling effort so we get the product without delaying more and more...this is not just a Kickstarter scratch built project throwing things over the fence.
I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_W._Miller
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Young padawan, you seem to be uninformed and lead by the Dark Side.
For Example...
Very dated? CT remains the favorite version of a substantial chunk of Traveller fans!
Me included!
Actually...GDW out sourced the MT job to DGP. And, it was DGP who invented the UTP (MT's task system) for use with CT, originally. It became the core mechanic when the DGP boys tackled the creation of MT.
You think the reason GDW went under was because Marc left?
For Example...
Very dated? CT remains the favorite version of a substantial chunk of Traveller fans!
Me included!
Actually...GDW out sourced the MT job to DGP. And, it was DGP who invented the UTP (MT's task system) for use with CT, originally. It became the core mechanic when the DGP boys tackled the creation of MT.
You think the reason GDW went under was because Marc left?
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Yes, his will is weak. The dark side leads him.
CT is very much the favorite. Never got interested in MT. TNE tried to make Traveller for people who preferred D&D dice mechanics.
Cash flow is one main reason for the demise of GDW. Print alot of material, and have it sit as dead inventory while it ties up funds.
Today, print on demand makes print runs more manageable. In the 80's and early 90's? Not so much.
Favorite versions
Long past being a padawan... :rofl:
Good point. I was trying to be brief but DGP had a significant role.
Yes I started on CT too but I moved on to T20 during the revitalization. I also preferred the task system in TNE and environment. Now I understand why people like MT, Gurps, and Mongoose.
GDW, when i use to visit and help game test, had a heavy burden with their product development system (as Pendragonman pointed out). A lota stock waiting in the warehouse (as i was told). Marc leaving probably helped the budget but we still see a small publisher attempting to manage many rulesets. Every product manager had his own ruleset.
This means that instead of producing modules in that time several rulesets we're under development outside of Traveller. This is probably why Gurps is the only one that survived the uprise of computer games.
Long past being a padawan... :rofl:
Good point. I was trying to be brief but DGP had a significant role.
Yes I started on CT too but I moved on to T20 during the revitalization. I also preferred the task system in TNE and environment. Now I understand why people like MT, Gurps, and Mongoose.
GDW, when i use to visit and help game test, had a heavy burden with their product development system (as Pendragonman pointed out). A lota stock waiting in the warehouse (as i was told). Marc leaving probably helped the budget but we still see a small publisher attempting to manage many rulesets. Every product manager had his own ruleset.
This means that instead of producing modules in that time several rulesets we're under development outside of Traveller. This is probably why Gurps is the only one that survived the uprise of computer games.
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NO, YOU answer whatever he was asking. I asked him a QUESTION. :file_19:
[m;]I am going to ask all involved to relax before the thread is locked and infractions are given out to all involved. [/m;]
Well, see, that's the trick, right? It's not necessarily about money, it's about time. He is OBLIGATED to deliver the CDs. He never promised a download to the PDF, he promised the CDs.
Since he's not technically astute, and since he's under no obligation to, delivering PDFs is a waste of time above and beyond his actual obligations.
Apparently, DTRPG is was able to provide the service for the screen saver swag, and distributing the PDF would ideally be a matter of upload a the PDF and a new mailing list to DTRPG. Yet, he has chosen not to do that.
Finally, none of the "solo" work has ever been "on time" by any measure. Delivery dates have always been optimistic. We do not know the details of the delays (I'm not on the KS, so I'm not privy to any updates, nor do I follow FB). From where I stand, I have faith that he's not in Belize and that this is all SOP.
To be forthcoming, I have not ordered T5 yet, I did not participate in the preview, nor the KS. I am not "waiting" for T5. I will wait for initial reviews of the book from those who have not been deeply involved with it and make my purchasing decision then. It's been 7 year so far, so I'm simply not worked up about it. I recall being excited enough by T4 to buy two copies of the rulebook, in hardback, and having much of that excitement snuffed out when the debacle of FF&S2 came out.
I did not care for Mongoose at all, but I am still very interested to see what the Tome has to offer us all. It will come when it comes, and I hope it's worth the wait and all of the effort that was put in by Marc and the others here that helped in its long development.
This topic has morphed into something much different than was originally intended (to get updated shipping information, as at the time no official status updates were available). I did not intend it to become a critique on business practices and I am sorry that I did add to that conversation in at least one post. I also did not realize that this was done in Marc's backyard and am sorry for being a poor guest.
Feel free to lock the thread or we can try reign in the anger (myself included) so we can discuss T5 civilly (this is a game based on advanced civilization, even if sometimes backwards notions). I know there are strong feelings on both sides of the fence here. As someone has already inferred, be careful as those feelings of anger, no matter which side of the argument you are on, can lead to the Dark Side (even if that is from the wrong game system, it still is a great ideology).
Feel free to lock the thread or we can try reign in the anger (myself included) so we can discuss T5 civilly (this is a game based on advanced civilization, even if sometimes backwards notions). I know there are strong feelings on both sides of the fence here. As someone has already inferred, be careful as those feelings of anger, no matter which side of the argument you are on, can lead to the Dark Side (even if that is from the wrong game system, it still is a great ideology).
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Ah...a Quixotic Jedi, then?
Isn't the TNE task system a copy of the MT task system, with a swap of dice from d6s to d10s?
There are some ancient threads around here in the forum somewhere--interviews that explain a lot of what went on back then. It's been a while since I read them.
Here's one of those threads: 10 Questions To Ask Joe Fugate, from way back in 2001. IIRC, there are others. One with Loren. I think one or two with Marc....it's been so long, my memory is fuzzy.
As for the task systems, I am under the impression that, when TNE came out, GDW attempted to consolidate all their games to the same system. Cadillacs and Dinosaurs used the same system, and I think there were plans to move Twilight 2000 to that system. Did they actually do that? I never played that game. Traveller 2300 used a version of the same system.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
See, that is the thing. Almost any thread of this kind is going to morph toward the opinions of those that think we all wasted our time/money waiting on Marc to deliver T5, and thus they feel free to attack his business practices.
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