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Trying to Fix T5 Melee Combat

The Melee rules in BBB1 pp.202-203 aren’t Traveller5’s finest hour. I want to describe the problem, then suggest a provisional alternative.

To recall the Melee task statement in the RAW:

2D < Attacker MN – Defender MN + Mods

MN is Str plus Skill plus Knowledge

The problem here is that evenly matched opponents will cancel each other out. If both opponents have Str 7 (or 5, or B), the attacker needs to roll 2D < 0 plus Mods to land a blow. The result is the pointless shadow boxing match that’s described in the example on p.203.

To remedy that problem, characters get to draw on their Dexterity as a “point pool” for positive Mods to the Target Number.

Say a character has Str 7 and Dex 8, and is facing an opponent with Str 7. He invests 8 out of his 8 Dex points in order to improve his task roll to 2D < 0 + 8 = 8. He may well land this one blow, but now his Dex pool is exhausted and the shadow boxing match commences.

He now has two options:

1. Ask his opponent to switch from bare fists to plasma rifles;

2. Ask him to switch to Pierce Inverarity’s alternative melee combat rules instead.

In this alternative system, which I spent all of 30 minutes devising, the Dex point pool is retained but is used differently. The task statement now looks like this:

(2+n)D < Attacker MN

n is the number of Dex points expended by the defender in the current melee round.


The defender is pitting his Dex against the attacker’s Str even as the attacker is rolling to hit. The defender decides how much fancy footwork he wants to employ to make himself harder to hit. In the next round, switch roles, then rinse and repeat.

Players will spend Dex points tactically from round to round based on the relative Str and Dex of the parties involved. Puny but dextrous characters will choose one tactic, brawny klutzes will choose another.

I’m using (2+n)D rather than just nD because I don’t want to deplete the Dex point pools too quickly.

Your thoughts, critiques, alternatives?
 
Board rules prevent me from commenting on T5 in a negative way.

What I will say is - playtest rules -> first release rule book -> 5.9 digital version -> 5.10 Three Books.

4 versions.

My fix to all of this is a completely new task resolution system.

Referee determines the number of dice to roll to generate a target number (3D, 4D, 5D, 6D) Player rolls 2D+assets to try and achieve the target number or better to succeed.

For melee combat - both roll 2D+asset, highest total wins.
 
For melee combat - both roll 2D+asset, highest total wins.

I pondered this myself, then decided against. It's an opposed roll that's not really opposed since it's more like two parties standing next to each other trying to solve the same task and the better solution wins.

I do like the way T5 melee tries to pit Str against Str directly, and also factors in Dex.
 
Your asset would be Str and relevant skill. You could make it Str + dex points spent + relevant skill.

To make it a bit more involved then make it an extended opposed task.

Keep track of who wins each exchange of blows and their effect number - the number by which they overcome their opponent.

When your total effect is higher than their Str or Dex you inflict a wound.

Stealing from CT you can only go for End turns until your Str is halved, if you think you are much more skilled than your opponent then you can make a weakened blow (half St)+Dex points spent+skill, which costs no End.

If encumbered lower Dex available.

Something like that, I would have to playtest and then modify once I see what happens.

I do like the idea of spending Dex or Str for special moves too.
 
Add in a FLUX roll somewhere in the task resolution (attacking or defending or both) to generate some randomness.
 
I was of the opinion the flux mechanic should have been worked on to become the primary resolution mechanic.

Referee determines difficulty

Skill - difficulty + flux = margin of success or failure
 
I was of the opinion the flux mechanic should have been worked on to become the primary resolution mechanic.
Flux is a nice concept, but IMO a bit overused and does not completely apply here since it doesn't give an answer by itself.

The primary resolution task resolution mechanic in T5 is clearly nD ≤ assets to obtain a success. I could wish that the specific rules for melee involved the opposed mechanic from BBB1 p.126 but since we have more specific results from BBB p.202, I guess we have to just go with those or house rule?
 
My take on task based flux is to use 2D-2D to generate a -10 to +10.

Take a look back at how melee worked in T4, T5 is basically the same system.
 
The surprising thing to me about melee in T5 is that it didn't used the opposed task mechanic. If it used that system it would be something like:

To hit your opponent in melee
Average (2D) ≤ Str + Weapon + Mods
Opposed.

The character that succeeds in the task with the lowest score would inflict damage.

I could also imagine all characters that succeed inflicting damage in order from lowest score to highest score.
 
Roger, I think the reason Marc used an opposed task in the example on p.126 but not for melee combat is precisely what I stated upthread.

The example on p.126 is a race on a track. In one sense, each runner is competing with all the others, but in another sense each runner is running his own race all by himself. Hence they all do a task roll individually, and the best roll wins.

Good grief. I just flipped through BBB1 and recalled another example: the brawl on p.148, a propos the Fighter skill. Guess what? This one's an opposed roll, which directly contradicts the melee rules.

On that note, let's not forget the example for using the Pilot skill on p.158. This one's a dogfight, and hence a kind of melee in space, and again it's resolved as an opposed task.

It seems to me that 5.1 is a many-layered palimpsest that's going to keep scholars busy for a long time.
 
Roger, I think the reason Marc used an opposed task in the example on p.126 but not for melee combat is precisely what I stated upthread.

The example on p.126 is a race on a track. In one sense, each runner is competing with all the others, but in another sense each runner is running his own race all by himself. Hence they all do a task roll individually, and the best roll wins.

Good grief. I just flipped through BBB1 and recalled another example: the brawl on p.148, a propos the Fighter skill. Guess what? This one's an opposed roll, which directly contradicts the melee rules.

On that note, let's not forget the example for using the Pilot skill on p.158. This one's a dogfight, and hence a kind of melee in space, and again it's resolved as an opposed task.

It seems to me that 5.1 is a many-layered palimpsest that's going to keep scholars busy for a long time.
Voynich 5.1?

 
Marc has mentioned a few times that he would like to do T8 - a simple version of Traveller aimed at 8 year olds and up.

A nice reimagining of the CT in all its simplicity - roll 2D. Restrict the number of DMs by using the advantage/disadvantage rule
roll with advantage (roll 3D, keep the highest 2)
roll 2D
roll disadvantage (roll 3D keep the lowest 2)
DMs would still exist but they are capped at +/-3 to what you roll on the dice
 
Roger, I think the reason Marc used an opposed task in the example on p.126 but not for melee combat is precisely what I stated upthread.
Sorry, I missed that mathematically it was the same - I was just trying to state a task using the actual T5 task system. Nice find on p.148 - that's essentially what I was going for. Interesting that brawling is Difficult there.
 
I like the
(2+n)D<AttackerMN
where n ls the Dex pool….I would alter it slightly to
(2+n)D<AttackerMN - Defender Skill-Defender knowledge

So
Str helps attack
Dex helps defense
Skill/Knowledge helps both
 
The surprising thing to me about melee in T5 is that it didn't used the opposed task mechanic. If it used that system it would be something like:

To hit your opponent in melee
Average (2D) ≤ Str + Weapon + Mods
Opposed.

The character that succeeds in the task with the lowest score would inflict damage.

I could also imagine all characters that succeed inflicting damage in order from lowest score to highest score.
M preference has been to take a leaf out of Pendragon and run it the same way, but the highest roll being the one that wins the contest.
 
Board rules prevent me from commenting on T5 in a negative way.

What I will say is - playtest rules -> first release rule book -> 5.9 digital version -> 5.10 Three Books.

4 versions.

My fix to all of this is a completely new task resolution system.

Referee determines the number of dice to roll to generate a target number (3D, 4D, 5D, 6D) Player rolls 2D+assets to try and achieve the target number or better to succeed.

For melee combat - both roll 2D+asset, highest total wins.
The Tunnels & Trolls approach to T5. 😇
 
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