Why liquid hydrogen?

[Dragoner]

I loathe to change stuff without good reason, such as sound science, as it breaks the compatibility, I like all the old deck plans (I like them more than most new ones tbh). So I say that the H2 is refined into metastable protium with negative mass, and that is how the wormhole is opened, eg how a vessel "jumps". Some is D-T for the reactor too. With metallic hydrogen, we don't have the pressure vessels to keep it compressed easily, I guess we could in the future, though it is rather interesting to think of what would happen if the tank ruptured.

 

[Spinward Flow]

How dangerous it would be is a matter of how stable it is rather than how much explosive force is involved.

So ... ... as long as nothing goes wrong, what's the problem?





I'm suddenly reminded of the Canyonero for some strange reason.

"Top of the line in utility sports! Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!"

 

[whulorigan]

. . . With metallic hydrogen, we don't have the pressure vessels to keep it compressed easily,

Just as a quick aside and a related tangent:

In some of the Draft materials for T5, "Hydrogen" was one of the possible construction materials for "Starship Armor" at about TL-20. I assume it was referring to stable Metallic Hydrogen.

 

[Spinward Flow]

In some of the Draft materials for T5, "Hydrogen" was one of the possible construction materials for "Starship Armor" at about TL-20. I assume it was referring to stable Metallic Hydrogen.

What a daft idea!

Just use a degenerate form of matter ... such as Dwarf Star Alloy.

 

[whulorigan]

What a daft idea!

Just use a degenerate form of matter ... such as Dwarf Star Alloy.

One of the other High TL Hull Armor options was "Strange" (I assume meaning "Strange Matter", which might include collapsed matter or other materials formed of nuclei including heavy Baryons/Hyperons).

But stable/stabilized Metallic Hydrogen would create ultralight hull armor, presuming it was ultra-strong and non-explosive.
(Or maybe it was intended to be a high-tech form of layered explosive-reactive armor).

 

[infojunky]

Actually if it was up to me I would ditch Hydrogen is favor of water...

Though I have been toying with doing ships based on mass rather than volume...

 

[Dragoner]

Just as a quick aside and a related tangent:

In some of the Draft materials for T5, "Hydrogen" was one of the possible construction materials for "Starship Armor" at about TL-20. I assume it was referring to stable Metallic Hydrogen.

Metallic Hydrogen exists at 58,000,000 psi, it is an interesting concept, as to how it might be used, some theorize it as a super conductor too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen

 

[Condottiere]

I remember a proposal to make the hull out of ice.

Add sawdust and a coolant unit for stabilization.

 

[spank]

I'm also looking at the volume it occupies. Since this would be on the order of say 10% of what liquid hydrogen takes up, protecting the storage tank(s) would be greatly simplified. It could be compared to storage of say avgas to jet fuel on an aircraft carrier. The former requires special precautions and care in handling to prevent fires while the later is safe to store in simple tanks as it is hard to ignite.

The volume it occupies is not the only consideration. Getting it to the powerplant also needs to be accounted for. With liquid it's easy, pump it into the engine or powerplant. With solids it is more difficult.
How are you going to get a block 8,000 cubic foot block of metallic hydrogen into the powerplant?
Whatever you do it is going to add space and complication. I'd guess it is going to be either rods or granules. As a general rule, spherical granules have a density between 64% to 74% depending on how well packed they are. 64% represents random packing, dump a bunch of marbles I'm a jar. And 74% represents perfect packing. Such as a stack of cannonballs.
If you go with the tightest packing you will have handling problems, better to go with a less perfect packing method that flows better
.
As a gross over simplification I'd allow 66% of the 10x density increase of using metallic But you'd still need to account for the feed mechanism.
.
Jump is far and away the primary user of power,
Normal ship's operation pales in comparison. I happened to be looking at life rafts recently, and there is a 5 dTon life raft design in the RCES equipment guide that has 10 low berths running on a fusion power plant. The stated duration with onboard fuel is 240 years. A far trader will burn 16 dTons in a matter of minutes for a J-1 jump.
.
One interesting idea: what if a ship didn't carry jump fuel at all? What if it only carried jump capacitors, that were charged from a tender?

 

[Condottiere]

That would be collectors.

 

[Enoki]

The volume it occupies is not the only consideration. Getting it to the powerplant also needs to be accounted for. With liquid it's easy, pump it into the engine or powerplant. With solids it is more difficult.
How are you going to get a block 8,000 cubic foot block of metallic hydrogen into the powerplant?
Whatever you do it is going to add space and complication. I'd guess it is going to be either rods or granules. As a general rule, spherical granules have a density between 64% to 74% depending on how well packed they are. 64% represents random packing, dump a bunch of marbles I'm a jar. And 74% represents perfect packing. Such as a stack of cannonballs.
If you go with the tightest packing you will have handling problems, better to go with a less perfect packing method that flows better
.
As a gross over simplification I'd allow 66% of the 10x density increase of using metallic But you'd still need to account for the feed mechanism.
.
Jump is far and away the primary user of power,
Normal ship's operation pales in comparison. I happened to be looking at life rafts recently, and there is a 5 dTon life raft design in the RCES equipment guide that has 10 low berths running on a fusion power plant. The stated duration with onboard fuel is 240 years. A far trader will burn 16 dTons in a matter of minutes for a J-1 jump.
.
One interesting idea: what if a ship didn't carry jump fuel at all? What if it only carried jump capacitors, that were charged from a tender?

Well, we really don't know what the exact properties of metallic hydrogen really are at the moment. Let's postulate that there is a temperature and pressure at which metallic hydrogen flows like a liquid, like mercury or gallium, but is still a stable metal. That is, it is still a metal, but it is also in a liquid state. That makes it no harder to feed to the engines than liquid hydrogen, and if it is stable in that form, then the need for keeping it cryogenic and pressurized at higher pressures is removed.

 

[Spinward Flow]

The volume it occupies is not the only consideration. Getting it to the powerplant also needs to be accounted for. With liquid it's easy, pump it into the engine or powerplant. With solids it is more difficult.

How are you going to get a block 8,000 cubic foot block of metallic hydrogen into the powerplant?

Well ... you don't have to shovel it in all at once do you?

You can just shovel that block of metallic hydrogen in at a rate of around 1 cubic foot per minute, right?

If you go with the tightest packing you will have handling problems, better to go with a less perfect packing method that flows better

No no no ... you just need a shovel that can scoop up the "loose gravel" of coal metalic hydrogen from the tender walk in fuel hopper!

Well, we really don't know what the exact properties of metallic hydrogen really are at the moment. Let's postulate that there is a temperature and pressure at which metallic hydrogen flows like a liquid, like mercury or gallium, but is still a stable metal. That is, it is still a metal, but it is also in a liquid state. That makes it no harder to feed to the engines than liquid hydrogen, and if it is stable in that form, then the need for keeping it cryogenic and pressurized at higher pressures is removed.

Somehow, I suspect that such a ... favorable outcome ... is not going to be on the cards dealt to us by real reality.

 

[Enoki]

Nothing like a coal--metallic hydrogen?--powered fighter plane...

 

[spank]

Well, we really don't know what the exact properties of metallic hydrogen really are at the moment. Let's postulate that there is a temperature and pressure at which metallic hydrogen flows like a liquid, like mercury or gallium, but is still a stable metal. That is, it is still a metal, but it is also in a liquid state. That makes it no harder to feed to the engines than liquid hydrogen, and if it is stable in that form, then the need for keeping it cryogenic and pressurized at higher pressures is removed.

We do know that ittakrs about

Well ... you don't have to shovel it in all at once do you?

You can just shovel that block of metallic hydrogen in at a rate of around 1 cubic foot per minute, right?

No no no ... you just need a shovel that can scoop up the "loose gravel" of coal metalic hydrogen from the tender walk in fuel hopper!

Somehow, I suspect that such a ... favorable outcome ... is not going to be on the cards dealt to us by real reality.

New rule:
All ships require 1 shoveller for every 5 tons of drive intalled.

 

[spank]

Nothing like a coal--metallic hydrogen?--powered fighter plane...

IIRC that was liquid hydrogen and coal

 

[mike wightman]

That would be collectors.

But could a collector station transfer its accumulator "jump particles" to a ship's accumulator?

 

[mike wightman]

We do know that ittakrs about

New rule:
All ships require 1 shoveller for every 5 tons of drive intalled.

I call dibs on an Ithklur stoker...

 

[Enoki]

IIRC that was liquid hydrogen and coal

Yea, but a TL like 6 or 7. Think how much better it'd be at TL 15...

 

[Spinward Flow]

New rule:
All ships require 1 shoveller for every 5 tons of drive intalled.

Yea, but a TL like 6 or 7. Think how much better it'd be at TL 15...

Hey Optimus! We've got a job for you in the space industry!
It's dirty, boring, repetitive AND dangerous ... so it ticks all of your boxes!

 

[spank]

Do you want a robot uprising?
Because that's how you get a robot uprising!!!

Hey Optimus! We've got a job for you in the space industry!
It's dirty, boring, repetitive AND dangerous ... so it ticks all of your boxes!